# How can you be X faith if you don't believe your holy word **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358 "2010-01-25T14:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/61 "2010-01-28T01:25:52Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > \*Also is their a way to edit on SD? I often won’t notice a spelling error until I have posted. I try and use spell check. I did graduate HS in 1980 but was never a great at spelling or grammar as some on here are. > > Pax~ Click “EDIT” under your post within five minutes, make your change, and click Save. Firefox comes with a spell checker, so I don’t have to do the checking outside. But, never fear, the content is still more important than the spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/62 "2010-01-28T20:56:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Click “EDIT” under your post within five minutes, make your change, and click Save. Firefox comes with a spell checker, so I don’t have to do the checking outside. But, never fear, the content is still more important than the spelling. Thanks! Why do you have a 5 minute time limit? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/63 "2010-01-28T20:58:45Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Thanks! Why do you have a 5 minute time limit? I think the powers that be had some desire to let people correct mistakes, but to keep the integrity of a thread intact. Poster A: The sky is purple. Poster B: You’re crazy! It is green. Poster A goes back and edits his post to make the sky pink. You see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/64 "2010-01-28T21:24:18Z")
[quote=“Perciful, post:26, topic:526358”] You can’t truthfully be X faith without believing in it. Some people say they are the faith they were born into. Some were bapized some are not. The ones that are not baptized are not of my faith even if they believe they are. Yes, it is a sham but some people want to identify with a group without fufilling the requirements or sacraments. It’s kind of like shacking up before marriage when shacking up is a mortal sin. The way around it is to go to confession right before the marriage ceremony. I believe in my holy faith but I am a mere human. I am not perfect but trying to achieve spiritual perfection in my life. Why, because I get grace from it. Is it difficult to not commit a mortal sin on a daily basis? Yes it is! Try dating without sex, forgiving an enemy, loving your neighbor, attending mass every Sunday, etc. The saints became saints by their extreme holiness throughout their lives. To me I use them as a yard stick and I am always falling short. Still it does not deter me. I do it out of love for Jesus Christ. When I mess up I confess and then try again. I try and read some scripture every day but some books are very hard to understand. Revelation is like a bad acid trip for me. Still everything I need to know is in the bible. I agree with the tenents of my faith and I do my best to constantly improve on my weak areas. I will never be a Mother Teresa but I aspire to be like her. We all can’t be chiefs, some of us have to be Indians too! I find it funny that atheists chime in on a topic they have not a clue about. To have a bible and a faith to follow and how to achieve it. That would be like me trying to reply on atheism which I don’t understand. I don’t have a problem with atheists but atheists sure have a problem with me. They remind me of the Grinch That Stole Christmas minus the spiritual awakening. They never espouse to writing about how wonderful atheism is or the benefits from it. The pure love of atheism and how it makes them a better person. \*\*There is no book of atheism that they follow. They have nothing to celebrate or rejoice about except in putting down/ challenging Christians. It isn’t just the atheists that put me down but other christians do to. Now how Christian is that? So much of the bible is dedicated to loving your enemies and how to forgive others. But I love you all anyway. Now crucify me…[/\*\*QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/65 "2010-01-28T21:33:19Z")
My very Catholic mother would say, “first one up the hill gets the center cross.” I always loved that expression… and I think that Perciful has beaten us all. If you get a chance, check out the Star Wars knock-off, “Hardware Wars,” there is an excellent scene where the gang call Obi-Wan a martyr when he sacrifices himself to turn off the tractor beam (an acutal tractor cartoon). Whenever I catch myself acting holier-than-thou (often), I remember that scene. I know that I am not really responding to the thread, and being just generally snarky. But I just loved… “There is no book of atheism that they follow.” ROTF \*\*\*Sorry I am a long time reader, but newbie poster. I am still learning how to do the quotes… ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/66 "2010-01-28T21:35:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Not correct. > > There were a couple of occasions during the Medieval period where specific bishops prohibited the translation of the bible into the local language of recent converts for fear that the translations would corrupt the word prior to the general education of the populace in Christianity. > > Later, during the Albigensian heresy and crusade around 1230, two synods of bishops in Southern France, (and only there, for that period), ordered that the laity not be permitted to have copies of scripture in reaction to the ideas promulagated by the Albigensians based on translations into the vernacular. Just after 1400, an edict was posted in England, following the uproar with the Lollards that only officially approved translations of scripture could be created in the vernacular. > > It was not until the Reformation occurred, during the Renaissance, that the church, upset by the ways that Luther, Calvin, and others read scripture, issued rules, beginning in 1564, that “learned” men had to have the permission of the bishop to read vernacular editions. (Anyone who could read Latin was always permitted to read the bible in that tongue.) Various edicts continued this practice until 1836, when it was decided that as long as the translation was one approved by the church, anyone could read it. > > So, for a bit under 300 years, the laity had to get permission to read translations into their own languages and it has been almost 175 years since that rule was removed. _“I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spares my life, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the Scriptures than the Pope himself!”_ William Tyndale ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/67 "2010-01-28T22:11:22Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > I find it funny that atheists chime in on a topic they have not a clue about. To have a bible and a faith to follow and how to achieve it. That would be like me trying to reply on atheism which I don’t understand. I don’t have a problem with atheists but atheists sure have a problem with me. They remind me of the Grinch That Stole Christmas minus the spiritual awakening. They never espouse to writing about how wonderful atheism is or the benefits from it. The pure love of atheism and how it makes them a better person. \*\*There is no book of atheism that they follow. They have nothing to celebrate or rejoice about except in putting down/ challenging Christians. It isn’t just the atheists that put me down but other christians do to. Now how Christian is that? So much of the bible is dedicated to loving your enemies and how to forgive others. Many atheists used to be believers. I’ve never been a Christian, but I went to shul far more often than I had to So many atheists understand belief just fine. You certainly don’t understand atheism very well. We aren’t atheists because of benefits to us, but simply because theists have not made a convincing case for the existence of any god. There is no book of atheism just as there is no book about not believing in unicorns. I have no objections to those who say there are benefits in believing, such as fellowship and good music. That has nothing to do with the lack of belief we have in god. If some Christians stopped telling up how we were going to be burned, and if some Christians stopped telling us that disaster would overtake us if gay people married, and if some Christians stopped denying the simple facts of science, the debate would be a lot less heated. BTW, as an atheist many years ago I dated without sex also. It just worked out that way. Didn’t make me holy, just horny. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/68 "2010-01-28T22:12:35Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > _“I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spares my life, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the Scriptures than the Pope himself!”_ > > William Tyndale William Tyndale was a brilliant man. He did so much good work and then he had to get cocky. Thanks there is a very good lesson in this. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/69 "2010-01-28T22:18:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Many atheists used to be believers. I’ve never been a Christian, but I went to shul far more often than I had to So many atheists understand belief just fine. > You certainly don’t understand atheism very well. We aren’t atheists because of benefits to us, but simply because theists have not made a convincing case for the existence of any god. There is no book of atheism just as there is no book about not believing in unicorns. > I have no objections to those who say there are benefits in believing, such as fellowship and good music. That has nothing to do with the lack of belief we have in god. If some Christians stopped telling up how we were going to be burned, and if some Christians stopped telling us that disaster would overtake us if gay people married, and if some Christians stopped denying the simple facts of science, the debate would be a lot less heated. > > BTW, as an atheist many years ago I dated without sex also. It just worked out that way. Didn’t make me holy, just horny. 😃 actually, that wasn’t what i said. i tried to quote Perciful and I pretty much screwed it up. to Perciful - you are a much better christian than i am and i commend you for walking the walk. i am already pitting myself for teasing you! and for being abysmal at working this quote thing ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358/70 "2010-01-30T01:56:34Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > actually, that wasn’t what i said. i tried to quote Perciful and I pretty much screwed it up. > > to Perciful - you are a much better christian than i am and i commend you for walking the walk. i am already pitting myself for teasing you! and for being abysmal at working this quote thing coolbj77, I am just learning all the bells and whistles myself. I have not been on a message board in a while but like the way people are respectful of one another on this one. Loved what your Mom said! My Mom sounds a lot like yours. Recently when facing something difficult she told me to “Go put on my big girl panties”! I didn’t take you the wrong way. I am far from where I want to be in my faith but leaps ahead from where I was 10 years ago. It’s a process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-be-x-faith-if-you-dont-believe-your-holy-word/526358.md?page=3)