# How can you fight that of which you are ignorant? (dismantling racism) (long, sorry) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162 "2020-01-09T04:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/161 "2020-01-12T00:33:47Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > To a point, yes. But he’s never been one to shy away from expressing his opinion, even on race related issues. And it still seems unusual to me, even for a “venting session”, for someone to post something that they are well aware that thousands of people will see (he has thousands of fb friends) and not be comfortable giving their opinion on it. What sorts of reactions was he hoping for/expecting when he shared those posts? Did you just ask for him opinion? Or did you ask specific questions to help him frame his response? Because if someone were to PM me and ask me for my opinion on racism, I wouldn’t know what to say. I know it may seem like I should have lots of stuff to say on the subject given my posting history. But I wouldn’t know how to respond to that query in a succinct, effortless way. It would really have to think hard how I would compose something that would do justice to my thoughts and feelings without being a wall of scary unreadable text. Even in a PM, I care about how my words come across. So if I was expected to share my opinion in front of an audience, I really wouldn’t know what to say. Especially considering the high possibility that the person I’m responding to will have follow-up questions–questions that will likely piss me off because they will likely put me on the defense. Questions like, “Forgive me, but can you explain why you are so upset by X? Cuz I’m still not getting why X is a problem.” It is super hard not to get angry over a response like this. In my experience, people who ask for an opinion are rarely satisfied with just getting that opinion. They almost always want to discuss that opinion and contrast it with theirs. And that is okay for trivial stuff like ice cream flavors. It’s infuriating when it comes to racism. Now, if someone were to ask me to share my opinion over a specific article about racism or a specific current event involving racism, I probably wouldn’t have a problem sharing my thoughts since I can probably hammer out a one-liner that encapsulates my viewpoint without me getting too emotionally worked up. But if what you are asking me requires me to bare my soul, then I’m probably going to tell you what Mark told you. Google is your friend. What a lot of people don’t really get is that for members of stigmatized minority groups, racism isn’t an intellectual abstraction. It’s a lived experience. Talking about it is almost always going to bring up intense, negative emotions. So you just weren’t asking Mark for an opinion. You were asking Mark to remember the horrible shit he’s been through. If you really do want to learn from a contemporary account, I recommend Ta Nehisi Coates’ “Between the World and Me.” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/162 "2020-01-12T00:39:09Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Did you just ask for him opinion? Or did you ask specific questions to help him frame his response? > > Because if someone were to PM me and ask me for my opinion on racism, I wouldn’t know what to say. I know it may seem like I should have lots of stuff to say on the subject given my posting history. But I wouldn’t know how to respond to that query in a succinct, effortless way. It would really have to think hard how I would compose something that would do justice to my thoughts and feelings without being a wall of scary unreadable text. Even in a PM, I care about how my words come across. > > So if I was expected to share my opinion in front of an audience, I really wouldn’t know what to say. Especially considering the high possibility that the person I’m responding to will have follow-up questions–questions that will likely piss me off because they will likely put me on the defense. Questions like, “Forgive me, but can you explain why you are so upset by X? Cuz I’m still not getting why X is a problem.” It is super hard not to get angry over a response like this. In my experience, people who ask for an opinion are rarely satisfied with just getting that opinion. They almost always want to discuss that opinion and contrast it with theirs. And that is okay for trivial stuff like ice cream flavors. It’s infuriating when it comes to racism. > > Now, if someone were to ask me to share my opinion over a specific article about racism or a specific current event involving racism, I probably wouldn’t have a problem sharing my thoughts since I can probably hammer out a one-liner that encapsulates my viewpoint without me getting too emotionally worked up. But if what you are asking me requires me to bare my soul, then I’m probably going to tell you what Mark told you. Google is your friend. > > What a lot of people don’t really get is that for members of stigmatized minority groups, racism isn’t an intellectual abstraction. It’s a lived experience. Talking about it is almost always going to bring up intense, negative emotions. So you just weren’t asking Mark for an opinion. You were asking Mark to remember the horrible shit he’s been through. > > If you really do want to learn from a contemporary account, I recommend Ta Nehisi Coates’ “Between the World and Me.” I asked him, “what, in your opinion, might be some ways to combat this white supremacist patriarchy”? Word for word, that is what i asked him ETA: I did try to talk to him in PM form, to no avail. Perhaps it was too late at that point. And I’d have no experience to contrast with his, i honestly just wanted to listen ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/163 "2020-01-12T00:45:06Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I would much rather someone hear from an actual live wheelchair user who is known to them _first_ before starting that research into the cold, pre-written detached words of faceless disabled and nondisabled people. But i see that perhaps it’s not the same task when it comes to discussing racism to those with no experience of it. I have a coworker who is disabled. I believe she has MS. She uses crutches sometimes, a wheelchair other times. We are acquaintances. She is a nice, friendly person. If I was confused about constitutes abelism, would you advise me to talk to this aquaintance of mine? Or would you encourage me to do some reading on the subject, since there’s a lot of good information out there already? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/164 "2020-01-12T01:10:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have a coworker who is disabled. I believe she has MS. She uses crutches sometimes, a wheelchair other times. We are acquaintances. She is a nice, friendly person. > > If I was confused about constitutes abelism, would you advise me to talk to this aquaintance of mine? Or would you encourage me to do some reading on the subject, since there’s a lot of good information out there already? If you wanted to know facts about what constitutes ableism, reading on the subject is the way to go. If you wanted her opinion on ways to combat ableism, well, asking her would probably be the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/165 "2020-01-12T01:11:00Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I asked him, “what, in your opinion, might be some ways to combat this white supremacist patriarchy”? Word for word, that is what i asked him That’s a pretty broad question to ask someone. That’s a question that involves typing out an essay if a person wants to do it justice. Not everyone wants to invest time and energy in composing an essay. > [@](#): > > ETA: I did try to talk to him in PM form, to no avail. Perhaps it was too late at that point. And I’d have no experience to contrast with his, i honestly just wanted to listen I know you did, but your friend didn’t know that. For all your friend knew, you were setting him up for a debate. It is possible that if you were friends rather than acquaintances, he would have engaged you offline. It is also possible that instead of asking your friend to do all the thinking, you could shown that you have been doing your own and that you aren’t a total novice to the discourse. This would have demonstrated that you respect his FB page and his postings and weren’t baiting him into a debate. Things might have gone down differently if you had said something like, “The articles you have posted have been me a lot of food for thought, and I’m thinking about things I can do to fight the system. Can you point me to a resource where I can learn more?” Maybe Mark would have still given you a curt response, I don’t know. But I can understand why your original question raised some hackles. Opinions are trivial, really. Everyone’s got them. They are worth a dime a dozen. Someone who is serious about understanding seeks out knowledge and information, not opinions. It is possible that if you had asked Mark for information, he would have taken you more seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/166 "2020-01-12T01:28:17Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > That’s a pretty broad question to ask someone. That’s a question that involves typing out an essay if a person wants to do it justice. Not everyone wants to invest time and energy in composing an essay. > > I know you did, but your friend didn’t know that. For all your friend knew, you were setting him up for a debate. It is possible that if you were friends rather than acquaintances, he would have engaged you offline. > > It is also possible that instead of asking your friend to do all the thinking, you could shown that you have been doing your own and that you aren’t a total novice to the discourse. This would have demonstrated that you respect his FB page and his postings and weren’t baiting him into a debate. Things might have gone down differently if you had said something like, “The articles you have posted have been me a lot of food for thought, and I’m thinking about things I can do to fight the system. Can you point me to a resource where I can learn more?” Maybe Mark would have still given you a curt response, I don’t know. But I can understand why your original question raised some hackles. Opinions are trivial, really. Everyone’s got them. They are worth a dime a dozen. Someone who is serious about understanding seeks out knowledge and information, not opinions. It is possible that if you had asked Mark for information, he would have taken you more seriously. Ok i see your points here. Especially the first, my question was very broad, perhaps overly so. And i _did_ tell him i was asking from a place of ignorance. He knows me to engage in good faith, I’ve never done anything like setting one up for a debate unknowingly by making it seem like i had nothing to say. That is not engaging in good faith. Ive had more substantial interaction with Mark than just about any of my other friends on FB. Opinions _can_ be trivial, depending on where they come from. Opinions coming from a place of ignorance and misunderstanding are rather trivial. But, for instance, my opinion on the prevalence of ableism in the day to day world is much much less trivial than that same opinion coming from an able-bodied person with no experience with disability. Plus, when it comes to dismantling this patriarchy, there exists nothing _but_ opinions as to the best ways moving forward. With Mark, it wasn’t _just_ the fact that he was black that i sought his opinion. It was also that i respected him, thought highly of his intelligence and would have regarded his opinion as one reached thru introspection, knowledge of the issues and understanding of nuances. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/167 "2020-01-12T01:33:25Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I could understand being characterized as “barging in” or “cold-calling” or as the many similar ways i have been characterized in this thread but how could that be, considering I was just asking a fb friend for his opinion re a shared post he had posted? So then I take it that I was right when I implied you cold called him. There hadn’t been any discussion between the two of you before you laid that question at his feet. What happened was that he posted something to his page about racism, it passively showed up in your feed, and your response to this was to ask him what you can do about it. My earlier analogy holds. Imagine if your friend had posted some nerdy fanwanky essay about Star Wars —presumably for those knowledgeable and interested enough in the movie to appreciate what he appreciated about it—and then you come along and ask him to explain what the whole Star Wars saga is about. Since it’s impossible to sum up Star Wars in a less than a couple of sentences, this is a ridiculously tall order. But even if it wasn’t, there is no shortage of content online about Star Wars. You can google it and get far better explanations than your average Facebook acquaintance could type out. I don’t know if your friend thought your question was loaded or disingenuous, but it wouldn’t be an unreasonable conclusion. People really interested in knowing what Star Wars is about don’t go around asking people what the story is about, as if they don’t know what a DVD player is. They do the logical thing and watch the movies. Likewise, people really interested in knowing what they can do to fight racism don’t go around seeking advice from Facebook acquaintances (not even real friends). They look for essays, books, and even documentaries that will enlighten them. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/168 "2020-01-12T01:41:22Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > If you wanted to know facts about what constitutes ableism, reading on the subject is the way to go. > > If you wanted her opinion on ways to combat ableism, well, asking her would probably be the way to go. Reading on the subject would probably give me a lot of facts AND opinions on abelism. Including opinions that my acquaintance would agree with. Asking one person to give me her opinion of ableism is setting myself up for a “Google is your friend” type of response. It’s also setting myself for other disappointing, unhelpful responses. So no, I don’t think that’s the best way to go. If someone asked me about my opinions on how to combat racism and I told them I don’t wanna talk about it, would it be reasonable for that person to throw up their hands and give up their quest for understanding? Or should they realize that my opinion isn’t the key to their understanding and they should consult with existing sources of information if they want to be properly educated? People like Coates write books and op-ed pieces so that you don’t have to ask people like Mark to bare their souls to you. I don’t know when this exchange happened, but have you actually gone to Google yet? I gave you a book recommendation. Are you going to check it out? If all you are interested in is this one guy’s opinion, then it is hard for me to think you are all that interested in understanding black people’s experiences with white supremacy patriarchy. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/169 "2020-01-12T01:58:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > He knows me to engage in good faith, I’ve never done anything like setting one up for a debate unknowingly by making it seem like i had nothing to say. That is not engaging in good faith. “Good faith” is in the eye of the beholder, though. Racism is not a sensitive topic for you. Conversations about race are not loaded with landmines for you. But they probably are for Mark. So in a dialogue about race, you might perceive yourself to be asking perfectly innocent questions. For someone like Mark, those questions may not come across so innocently. They might come across as belittling or purposefully obtuse. They may remind him of the vast gulf between you two. If you’ve never dialogued with Mark before about race, he has no idea how “cool” you are. There are some folks I trust with conversations about race. But there are other folks who I don’t trust with this topic, even though I trust them on everything else. I don’t know how you build trust, but I would say social media postings is not the way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/170 "2020-01-12T02:10:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Reading on the subject would probably give me a lot of facts AND opinions on abelism. Including opinions that my acquaintance would agree with. > > Asking one person to give me her opinion of ableism is setting myself up for a “Google is your friend” type of response. It’s also setting myself for other disappointing, unhelpful responses. So no, I don’t think that’s the best way to go. > > If someone asked me about my opinions on how to combat racism and I told them I don’t wanna talk about it, would it be reasonable for that person to throw up their hands and give up their quest for understanding? Or should they realize that my opinion isn’t the key to their understanding and they should consult with existing sources of information if they want to be properly educated? > > People like Coates write books and op-ed pieces so that you don’t have to ask people like Mark to bare their souls to you. > > I don’t know when this exchange happened, but have you actually gone to Google yet? I gave you a book recommendation. Are you going to check it out? If all you are interested in is this one guy’s opinion, then it is hard for me to think you are all that interested in understanding black people’s experiences with white supremacy patriarchy. First of all, im saying if you wanted to hear **her** opinion on the ableism topic, because you knew from past history with her that she might very likely have something to say that was worth listening to. Especially if say, she had just stuffed your maibox with a letter _about_ ableism. Secondly, if Mark had responded to my query with “I don’t want to talk about it” then i would have no reason to press on at all. But that’s not what he said. He said “im not your sherpa” and “its not my problem”. I honestly didnt understand why i received that kind of response from him. And i was **not** looking to be “properly educated”. I wasn’t viewing his opinion as a substitute for proper research. I was just curious to hear his opinion on this subject he had taken the time to find and share an informative post on that was now in my feed. Curious because i appreciated what he had to say on many other matters. And actually, i havent had to google yet. My gf has “We Were 8 Years in Power” by T.C. which ive just cracked. Its more a collection of essays but since i already have it (and i much prefer reading old school page-turners) i figure its a good starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/171 "2020-01-12T02:17:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “Good faith” is in the eye of the beholder, though. Racism is not a sensitive topic for you. Conversations about race are not loaded with landmines for you. But they probably are for Mark. So in a dialogue about race, you might perceive yourself to be asking perfectly innocent questions. For someone like Mark, those questions may not come across so innocently. They might come across as belittling or purposefully obtuse. They may remind him of the vast gulf between you two. > > If you’ve never dialogued with Mark before about race, he has no idea how “cool” you are. There are some folks I trust with conversations about race. But there are other folks who I don’t trust with this topic, even though I trust them on everything else. I don’t know how you build trust, but I would say social media postings is not the way to do it. Please dont make me sound silly. I never said he knows im cool. All i said is, from all our past debates and discussions (of which there are many), as well as our time as classmates, he has always known me to engage in good faith. Race discussions may be different but any suspicion he may have brought to our exchange did not come from our extensive history of dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/172 "2020-01-12T02:44:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So then I take it that I was right when I implied you cold called him. There hadn’t been any discussion between the two of you before you laid that question at his feet. What happened was that he posted something to his page about racism, it passively showed up in your feed, and your response to this was to ask him what you can do about it. > > My earlier analogy holds. Imagine if your friend had posted some nerdy fanwanky essay about Star Wars —presumably for those knowledgeable and interested enough in the movie to appreciate what he appreciated about it—and then you come along and ask him to explain what the whole Star Wars saga is about. Since it’s impossible to sum up Star Wars in a less than a couple of sentences, this is a ridiculously tall order. But even if it wasn’t, there is no shortage of content online about Star Wars. You can google it and get far better explanations than your average Facebook acquaintance could type out. > > I don’t know if your friend thought your question was loaded or disingenuous, but it wouldn’t be an unreasonable conclusion. People really interested in knowing what Star Wars is about don’t go around asking people what the story is about, as if they don’t know what a DVD player is. They do the logical thing and watch the movies. Likewise, people really interested in knowing what they can do to fight racism don’t go around seeking advice from Facebook acquaintances (not even real friends). They look for essays, books, and even documentaries that will enlighten them. You’re mischaracterizing way FB works. It wasnt “posted to his page”, it was posted to all the 4000+ fb friends he has. So it didnt “passively” show up on my feed (im not sure what you mean by that anyway), it showed up exactly the way its supposed to and exactly the way he intended it to. Also, to keep the Star Wars analogy going, the post shared was discussing Star Wars and it informed in about a paragraph. It didnt need to give the entire history, prologue, epilogue and cast of characters in order to be informative. And neither did Mark. He didnt need to give me any kind of exhaustive, essay-level answer. I was asking him (what i thought was) a logical followup question to the shared post. That post had described what the patriarchy _was_ _how_ the patriarchy functions and _how_ it would be with us until destroyed. I wasn’t “going around seeking advice from fb friends”. I was _responding_ to one specific friend whose FB post on the subject of racism brought up what i honestly considered to be a legitimate, honest and thoughtful question. He could have given me an informative answer with just a few sentences. He could give me a _thoughtful_ answer to “in your opinion, what are some possible ideas for fighting this patriarchy”, without it having to be an _exhaustive_ answer. I’m not sure where the assumption came from that in order to give an opinion on this subject, one would need to give a novel-length opinion, covering the entire history of racism. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/173 "2020-01-12T03:07:07Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Secondly, if Mark had responded to my query with “I don’t want to talk about it” then i would have no reason to press on at all. But that’s not what he said. He said “im not your sherpa” and “its not my problem”. I honestly didnt understand why i received that kind of response from him. The Sherpa thing seems self-evident. He found your question to be an imposition, much like the burden a Sherpa has to carry so that privileged people can have the thrill of journeying up a death trap. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/174 "2020-01-12T03:16:10Z")
At least Sherpas are paid. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/175 "2020-01-12T03:16:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > … Conversations about race are not loaded with landmines for you. But they probably are for Mark. So in a dialogue about race, you might perceive yourself to be asking perfectly innocent questions. For someone like Mark, those questions may not come across so innocently. They might come across as belittling or purposefully obtuse. … > [@Ambivalid](#): > > … Race discussions may be different but any suspicion he may have brought to our exchange did not come from our extensive history of dialogue. Sounds like agreement to me. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/176 "2020-01-12T03:39:51Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > You’re mischaracterizing way FB works. It wasnt “posted to his page”, it was posted to all the 4000+ fb friends he has. So it didnt “passively” show up on my feed (im not sure what you mean by that anyway), it showed up exactly the way its supposed to and exactly the way he intended it to. When I say “passive”, I mean he didn’t target that post to you as if it were a personalized communication. If he shared something with 4000+ people, he obviously wasn’t trying to have a discussion with 4000+ people. Especially 4000+ people asking for his opinion about a heavy subject. But you tried to turn it into a discussion. That is not what most FBers use the system for. Look, every time my dad posts a pic of his grandkids on FB, dozens of people sees it on their home page. It’s distributed to his network simply as a result of him posting it on FB. Yes, he wants others to see it, like it, and comment on it, but he doesn’t do this with the expectation or desire that people will email him with very personal questions about his grandkids. Personal questions from an acquaintance who doesn’t even know his kids, let alone his grandkids, is asking to be unfriended. It’s a tone deaf thing to do. At this point, you either get it or you don’t. The amount of ink you’ve given the whole exchange tells me that you’re making this way more complicated than it needs to be. > [@](#): > > Also, to keep the Star Wars analogy going, the post shared was discussing Star Wars and it informed in about a paragraph. It didnt need to give the entire history, prologue, epilogue and cast of characters in order to be informative. Okay, but your question to him was heavy enough to warrant more than superficial treatment. That’s what you should be seeing in the analogy. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/177 "2020-01-12T04:27:51Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > He could have given me an informative answer with just a few sentences. He could give me a _thoughtful_ answer to “in your opinion, what are some possible ideas for fighting this patriarchy”, without it having to be an _exhaustive_ answer. He could’ve also ignored you completely. But he didn’t. He actually told you what his opinion on the matter was. He believes you should ”google it”. Seriously, I’m not even be facetious here. He gave you a meaningful answer to your question. And it appears you completely disregarded his answer. You admit you have not done any googling. How hard would it be to do that? If doing a search for that information is that elusive to you, can you not see how it looks like intellectual curiosity on your end seems lacking? Like you’re wanting him to essentially carry you like a Sherpa would over the scary mountain? You haven’t convinced me that Mark should’ve given a more “informative” or “thoughtful” answer. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/178 "2020-01-12T04:32:53Z")
I’m reminded of [a different story](https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/115743/standing-on-one-foot) as an analogy. You were hoping maybe for your friend to be a Hillel but a Shammai response is more what should be reasonably expected. > [@](#): > > This is the story of how a Gentile came to the great pair of rabbis, Hillel and Shammai, and promised that he would convert to Judaism if they would teach him the Torah while he stood on one foot. > > The sages’ answers are given in the Talmud as testimony to their very different personalities. The stern Shammai impatiently “pushed [the Gentile] away with the ruler he was holding in his hand.” To him, the idea that you could learn the Torah—which would have to include the Oral Torah, the whole Mishnah—while standing on one leg was so preposterous that the Gentile’s question could only be mockery. The humble Hillel, on the other hand, returned the answer that has become proverbial: “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow; this is the entire Torah, all the rest is an elaboration. Now go and learn it.” There may be a pithy response possible to “what, in your opinion, might be some ways to combat this white supremacist patriarchy”? but without one at the ready asking for an answer to that is a big ask, not one well suited to comments on FB. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/179 "2020-01-12T05:07:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like fuck it is. It’s very real. People die from it. How do people die from responding constructively to people like the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162/180 "2020-01-12T05:08:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is why I think it’s incumbent on white people to work at persuading other white people that there’s a problem, and why it’s incumbent on white people to work on figuring out how to solve this problem. Even if it means white people get subjected to glib, sophomoric taunts about how they’re appointing themselves the spokesperson for black people; we’ll just have to bear up under that foolishness. So that black people don’t have to? I always figured fighting racism was an all hands on deck sort of exercise but if it’s on white people to fix it, I am relieved cuz I’m not white. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-fight-that-of-which-you-are-ignorant-dismantling-racism-long-sorry/846162.md?page=10)