# How can you kill 77 people in self-defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070 "2012-04-17T18:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/1 "2012-04-17T18:35:26Z")
**Norwegian Man Claims Self-Defense in Killings** So reads the headline in _The New York Times_. Now, I’m sure that someone reading _The New York Times_ today in print or on a tablet, when turning or clicking to page A6, could be forgiven for not realizing the background of the story. They will understand that a trial recently began in Norway. They might vaugely remember the [2011 Norway attacks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks). They will read the headline and see the picture and assume that Mr. Breivik perhaps killed an intruder at his residence or something like that. They won’t assume that Mr. Breivik killed _over 70 people_. :eek: A better headline would have been: **Norwegian Man Claims 77 Killed in Self-Defense** How do you kill 77 people in self-defense? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/2 "2012-04-17T18:40:29Z")
They were all wearing hoodies. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/3 "2012-04-17T18:40:44Z")
I’m bookmarking this thread to post in 2014 for the zombie horde jokes. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/4 "2012-04-17T18:40:55Z")
Breivik? Self-defense? What now? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/5 "2012-04-17T18:46:07Z")
Breivik is claiming, I believe, that he was defending the Norwegian people, including himself, by killing the members of a liberal political group who were insufficiently resistant to the menace posed by Islam and Islamic people in Northern Europe. It’s ludicrous, of course, and will not hold up in court, but there’s probably no chance at all of Breivik avoiding prison except by pleading insanity, and that only gets him sent to a different sort of prison. So I expect he’s pleading self-defense in order to use the trial to spread his message. EDIT: Actually, I don’t see the words “self-defense” in that article. RE-EDIT: Oh, wait, there’s a couple different NYtimes articles. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/6 "2012-04-17T18:50:22Z")
Breivik doesn’t have a defense. He’s either going to prison, or a locked mental hospital. So he’s just having some fun trolling us. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/7 "2012-04-17T18:56:50Z")
> **[Trial of Anders Behring Breivik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Anders_Behring_Breivik)** > > The trial of Anders Behring Breivik, the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks, took place between 16 April and 22 June 2012 in Oslo District Court. Breivik was sentenced to 21 years of preventive detention on 24 August 2012. 170 media organisations were accredited to cover the proceedings, involving some 800 individual journalists. > The main question during the trial became the extent of the defendant's criminal responsibility for these attacks and thereby whether he would be sentenced to im... [QUOTE=Wikipedia] When asked to plead after hearing the charge-sheet, Breivik responded that he acknowledged that he committed the charges, but pleaded not guilty because he was acting ot of “necessity” (In Norwegian: nødrett). A court translator incorrectly translated this to “self-defence” (nødverge), but court officials corrected the error the second day. [/QUOTE] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9206193/Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik-trial-live.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9206193/Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik-trial-live.html) > **[Admitted Norway killer boasts of ‘spectacular political attack’ | CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/17/world/europe/norway-breivik-trial/?hpt=ieu_c1)** > > Anders Behring Breivik, the man on trial for killing 77 people in Norway last summer, declares that he carried out a “spectacular political attack.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/8 "2012-04-17T19:00:10Z")
“The bus driver was trying to run me down, so I shot the bus with my grenade launcher.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/9 "2012-04-17T19:01:36Z")
He doesn’t want to be found insane - it would undermine his “message.” Batshit crazy, no matter what he claims. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/10 "2012-04-17T19:13:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Breivik doesn’t have a defense. He’s either going to prison, or a locked mental hospital. So he’s just having some fun trolling us. Breivik’s prison is a three room appartement with his own gym and study, and his own cooks preparing special meals to his specifications. The media is treating him like a rockstar and outside is the usual horde of mass-murder groupie girls wanting to marry him, have sex, have his babies, writing him love letters, propositions, etc. In no time he’ll be settled down with a nice wife or two, bouncing his small kids on the knees. He’s better off than most of you guys. But at least so far we’ve been spared the usual trite saying “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Thank God for small favours. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/11 "2012-04-17T19:22:57Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Breivik’s prison is a three room appartement with his own gym and study, and his own cooks preparing special meals to his specifications. The media is treating him like a rockstar and outside is the usual horde of mass-murder groupie girls wanting to marry him, have sex, have his babies, writing him love letters, propositions, etc. In no time he’ll be settled down with a nice wife or two, bouncing his small kids on the knees. He’s better off than most of you guys. But at least so far we’ve been spared the usual trite saying “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Thank God for small favours. Could you provide a cite for his living conditions and the other stuff? Not calling you out, but I did some basic searching and found year old articles on what his eventual prison may look like. Nice, but not a three room apartment. As to how you can kill 77 people in self-defense? The guy is nuttier than a fruitcake. His little arm gesture the other day was, no matter what he may say to deny it, at the very least a Nazi homage. He calls for armed uprisings and spews much gibberish. He needs to be isolated from the healthy. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/12 "2012-04-17T19:24:49Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Breivik’s prison is a three room appartement with his own gym and study, and his own cooks preparing special meals to his specifications. The media is treating him like a rockstar and outside is the usual horde of mass-murder groupie girls wanting to marry him, have sex, have his babies, writing him love letters, propositions, etc. In no time he’ll be settled down with a nice wife or two, bouncing his small kids on the knees. Little help requested here. Is there a link to an English-language source that confirms any of the above? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/13 "2012-04-17T19:27:48Z")
The answer to your question, OP, is that you can’t. He has to enter a plea, this is no worse than any other. He’s going away for life, which in Scandanavia is what, 3 years or so? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/14 "2012-04-17T19:44:38Z")
_Private Joker:_ How can you shoot women or children? _Door Gunner:_ Easy! You just don’t lead 'em so much! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/15 "2012-04-17T19:56:10Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you kill 77 people in self-defense? > > 😕 Attorney: “Judge my client is going with the, ‘My God it’s coming right for us!’ defense.” > **[It's Coming Right For Us - South Park | South Park Studios US](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/9b5egn/south-park-it-s-coming-right-for-us)** > > Stan won't shoot a rabbit, despite pressure from Uncle Uncle Jimbo and Cartman. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/16 "2012-04-17T19:57:39Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Little help requested here. Is there a link to an English-language source that confirms any of the above? No. [Breivik has three cells at Ila (Norwegian)](http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/22-juli/artikkel.php?artid=10023795) [Norway spoil the mass-murderer (Danish)](http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article1739735.ece) [Breivik receives piles of love letters (Danish)](http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2011/08/29/060923.htm) [Norway killer pores over love letters](http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/norway-killer-pores-over-love-letters) [Norwegian Mass Murderer, Breivik Get Piles Of Love Letters](http://www.scancomark.se/Regional/That-Norwagian-mass-murderer-Breivik-received-lots-of-love-letters.html) But I was wrong about the lack of people claiming “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” on Breivik. A Google gives 4k+ hits. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/17 "2012-04-17T20:24:50Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you kill 77 people in self-defense? > > 😕 You obviously haven’t seen **Kill Bill Vol. 1**. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/18 "2012-04-17T20:28:05Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > He’s going away for life, which in Scandanavia is what, 3 years or so? Twenty-one years, with extensions unless his parole board determines he’s no longer a threat to society. Rune, he’s on remand. It’s pointless to compare that to the maximum security prison he’ll be transferred to should he not be found insane. Care to dig up his comments on how much he’s looking forward to being found insane, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/19 "2012-04-17T20:52:17Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you kill 77 people in self-defense? \One at a time, I suppose \ ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/20 "2012-04-17T21:08:19Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > You obviously haven’t seen **Kill Bill Vol. 1**. Nah, there weren’t really eighty-eight of them. They just called themselves “The Crazy 88.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070.md?page=2)