# How can you kill 77 people in self-defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070 "2012-04-17T18:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/21 "2012-04-17T21:39:23Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Twenty-one years, with extensions unless his parole board determines he’s no longer a threat to society. > > Rune, he’s on remand. It’s pointless to compare that to the maximum security prison he’ll be transferred to should he not be found insane. > > Care to dig up his comments on how much he’s looking forward to being found insane, by the way? He does not want to be declared insane. Says it’s a fate worse than death. If he is unlucky he gets to stay in the same prison he is now; alternatively he will be transferred to the maximum security prison as you say. As for how awful that’ll be, check this out: [Inside the World’s Most Humane Prison](http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html). Or this presentation: [Youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytz-pP8p1Bg) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/22 "2012-04-17T22:03:02Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > He does not want to be declared insane. Says it’s a fate worse than death. If he is unlucky he gets to stay in the same prison he is now; alternatively he will be transferred to the maximum security prison as you say. As for how awful that’ll be, check this out: [Inside the World’s Most Humane Prison](http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html). Or this presentation: [Youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytz-pP8p1Bg) Jealous, eh? Too bad nobody’s offering such swank accommodations to anti-multiculturalist keyboard warriors. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/23 "2012-04-17T22:38:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Jealous, eh? Too bad nobody’s offering such swank accommodations to anti-multiculturalist keyboard warriors. You are forgetting your very own perfectly [reasonable explanation of the defense in another thread just yesterday.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14970717&postcount=34): > [@Dear Morons: VET YOUR GODDAMN SOURCES](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-morons-vet-your-goddamn-sources/618841/34): > > Let’s take a lesson from the Martin/Zimmerman case and wait until all the facts are in before forming any opinions. It’s entirely possible that Breivik was merely following each of the 77 to keep an eye on them—which is his right under the law—and one by one, each of them turned and attacked him, leaving him no choice but to use deadly force. He’s probably as upset as anyone that it had to turn out that way. I’m convinced! ---
**Author:** ![somenewguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@somenewguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somenewguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/24 "2012-04-17T22:58:53Z")
Ehm, only one mistake. He didn’t say “self-defence” but “principle of necessity”. Which isn’t quite the same. And so you know i’m not making this up, the article about this translation error has been on norwegian news sites. Just thought you should know. ---
**Author:** ![somenewguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@somenewguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somenewguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/25 "2012-04-17T23:06:47Z")
Ofc, what he did can’t be excused just like someone from Al-qaida blowing up a market place. But i don’t think he is insane. My point is, he will get lifetime in prison (21 years is max you say? Well, no, it is possible to prolong, as long as he is considered a threat). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/26 "2012-04-17T23:09:37Z")
> [@somenewguy](#): > > Ehm, only one mistake. He didn’t say “self-defence” but “principle of necessity”. Which isn’t quite the same. And so you know i’m not making this up, the article about this translation error has been on norwegian news sites. > Just thought you should know. Oh, well, that makes sense then. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/27 "2012-04-17T23:33:48Z")
[Inverse Ninja Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_Evil_Marksmanship#Inverse_Ninja_Law). Also: How is that a real Wikipedia page and not something on TVTropes? > [@bucketybuck](#): > > Nah, there weren’t really eighty-eight of them. They just called themselves “The Crazy 88.” You sure about that? IMDB trivia claims that the body count in that movie is 95. I think there really are 88 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/28 "2012-04-17T23:40:33Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > How do you kill 77 people in self-defense? Easily enough; if say you are a soldier manning a machine gun and you shoot 77 charging armed invading soldiers, that’s clearly self defense. Of course that doesn’t even remotely resemble what _this_ guy did. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/29 "2012-04-17T23:55:10Z")
IIRC, he’s got some delusion that he’s protecting the Norwegian people and culture from the Muslim hordes and from Europeans multiculturalists bent on submerging Europe’s grand culture beneath a tide of nasty ferriners and their nasty ideas. It’s pretty heroic, if you look at it in a certain way…after, say, someone cuts out a large part of your brain with a dull spoon, then soaks the rest in mescaline and acid. To paraphrase, sometimes you have to kill the Norwegians to save them… (Hopefully he’ll be found insane…as I understand it, if he is it’s one of the few ways he’d be put away for life, though I don’t know exactly how things are done there wrt life in prison) -XT ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/30 "2012-04-17T23:58:01Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Says it’s a fate worse than death. Which was my point. He’d love a post racial state (one where non-Nordies were exterminated, preferably), but failing that, he’d want to be judged by a social conservative that gave him instant treatment. Anyway, they’re clearly doing something right in Norway considering their [recidivism rates](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/277771/norway-is-safe/). Maybe it’d be worth encouraging crime so that more reactionaries are elected in order to degrade the quality of prisons to satisfy the moral crusaders? Perhaps that was what Breivik meant by “necessity”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/31 "2012-04-18T00:12:51Z")
> [@somenewguy](#): > > Ehm, only one mistake. He didn’t say “self-defence” but “principle of necessity”. Which isn’t quite the same. And so you know i’m not making this up, the article about this translation error has been on norwegian news sites. > Just thought you should know. Aah, so he is using the Texas “he needed killin” law as a defense. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/32 "2012-04-18T04:05:24Z")
He stood his ground :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/33 "2012-04-18T06:43:20Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Which was my point. He’d love a post racial state (one where non-Nordies were exterminated, preferably), but failing that, he’d want to be judged by a social conservative that gave him instant treatment. > > Anyway, they’re clearly doing something right in Norway considering their [recidivism rates](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/277771/norway-is-safe/). Maybe it’d be worth encouraging crime so that more reactionaries are elected in order to degrade the quality of prisons to satisfy the moral crusaders? Perhaps that was what Breivik meant by “necessity”? I fail to see the point. I don’t know what it is about the insanity judgment he fears so much. Perhaps not being taken seriously. But I doubt the living condition are much worse in mental institutions than for prisoners. In any case he has been declared sane and fit for trial. He probably has it just the way he wants. A platform to spread his message and a media that listens and is attentive to every little trivial detail of his life, like it was the paparrazi reporting on Madonna’s latest bullshit. I also think their recidivism rate in this case would be zero if they chopped off his head and put it on a stake like they ought to. What he meant by necessity is that he is sorry he had to murder the people, but it was the only way he could see to save his nation. He has explained this before. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/34 "2012-04-18T06:49:25Z")
I’m also don’t think “principle of necessity” is a good translation of “nødværge” or “nødret.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/35 "2012-04-18T06:55:55Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > … A platform to spread his message and a media that listens and is attentive to every little trivial detail of his life, … The media isn’t very attentive if it mis-translates practically the first words out if his mouth – his plea. But then again, maybe that was American media – which, attentive or not, is not the brightest bulb on the world media string. Did the BBC or other English-language media get it wrong too? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/36 "2012-04-18T08:53:47Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I also think their recidivism rate in this case would be zero if they chopped off his head and put it on a stake like they ought to. Was there crime in London when they practiced this method? Not sure I parsed your sentence correctly, it’s a little ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/37 "2012-04-18T08:57:03Z")
From a translation of the Danish article, it seems that Breivik has indeed three cells. One to sleep in, one to exercise in and one to spend the day/work in. The prison feared that if they let Breivik out to the communal prison facilities, he would be killed by the other inmates. So he is in effect in solitary confinement. All three cells are 8 square meter, that is 89 square feet each. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/38 "2012-04-18T13:00:44Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > You sure about that? IMDB trivia claims that the body count in that movie is 95. I think there really are 88 of them. He was just quoting a line from the second film. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/39 "2012-04-18T13:08:04Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Nah, there weren’t really eighty-eight of them. They just called themselves “The Crazy 88.” Yeah, there were probably only 77 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/40 "2012-04-18T13:12:51Z")
Cue every Hollywood action movie ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070.md?page=3)