# How can you kill 77 people in self-defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070 "2012-04-17T18:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/41 "2012-04-18T13:28:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Breivik doesn’t have a defense. He’s either going to prison, or a locked mental hospital. So he’s just having some fun trolling us. Sadly, I think not. I think he actually believes his own drivel. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/42 "2012-04-18T15:15:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The media isn’t very attentive if it mis-translates practically the first words out if his mouth – his plea. > > But then again, maybe that was American media – which, attentive or not, is not the brightest bulb on the world media string. At least now we don’t need an Onion article. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/43 "2012-04-18T15:20:55Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > […] He’s better off than most of you guys […] I can suggest some research into the general consensus in Norway about how this atrocity more than anything demands that we uphold our principles of humane treatment of criminals, no matter how heinous the crime. Also, you could read the statements from the kids who, you know, actually were there and ran for their lives. So why don’t you just let us take care of our assholes the way we think is the right way and rather concentrate on your own asshole? FYI, some civilized nations have abandoned the medieval penal system of dungeons, hangings, drawing and quartering. I’m proud to be living in one of them. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/44 "2012-04-18T15:57:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sadly, I think not. I think he actually believes his own drivel. > [@](#): > > [Breivik was also questioned about his religious beliefs by a lawyer for the victims](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17752189). > > “Well, I am a militant Christian; to prevent the de-Christianisation of Europe is very important,” he said. > > “But this does not mean we want to introduce a Christian theocracy. We are not Christian fundamentalists. I believe in God and I believe in a life after death.” Somehow I doubt that this is what Jesus had in mind with his whole ‘suffer the little children’ thing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/45 "2012-04-18T16:07:45Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Somehow I doubt that this is what Jesus had in mind with his whole ‘suffer the little children’ thing. Oh, the tragedies of mis-translations! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/46 "2012-04-18T16:43:13Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Nah, there weren’t really eighty-eight of them. They just called themselves “The Crazy 88.” She let the teenage one go home to his mother, and Ren was a duel. So it was 87. (Sophie was not killed.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/47 "2012-04-18T17:16:33Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > She let the teenage one go home to his mother, and Ren was a duel. So it was 87. (Sophie was not killed.) Well, before the teahouse slaughterfest, we see her kill three people - Vernita Green, Buck, and Buck’s customer. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/48 "2012-04-18T17:22:34Z")
I thought 95 was the total for the whole movie, not just for The Bride. If so, you’d have to count all the killings at the chapel, and Michael Madsen (can’t recall the character name), and I’m not sure who all else. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/49 "2012-04-18T18:29:24Z")
> [@SweetLucy](#): > > He stood his ground :rolleyes: You are obviously ignorant of the case. He did not stand his ground. He was running all over the fucking place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/50 "2012-04-18T19:00:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I thought 95 was the total for the whole movie, not just for The Bride. If so, you’d have to count all the killings at the chapel, and Michael Madsen (can’t recall the character name), and I’m not sure who all else. Well, there’s that guy Lucy Liu beheads over the comment about her ancestry, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/51 "2012-04-18T21:03:06Z")
[QUOTE=The New York Times, April 18, 2012] Arguing that he had acted in his country’s defense, and likening himself to American commanders who authorized the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, he said, “I ask that I be acquitted by the court.” [/QUOTE] :smack: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/52 "2012-04-18T22:08:59Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > [QUOTE=The New York Times] > , April 18, 2012 > Arguing that he had acted in his country’s defense, and likening himself to American commanders who authorized the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, he said, “I ask that I be acquitted by the court.” :smack: [/QUOTE] Ah, the Monsieur Verdoux defense, as Chaplin would tell him, Verdoux still was declared guilty anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/53 "2012-04-19T09:33:02Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Breivik’s prison is a three room appartement with his own gym and study, and his own cooks preparing special meals to his specifications. The media is treating him like a rockstar and outside is the usual horde of mass-murder groupie girls wanting to marry him, have sex, have his babies, writing him love letters, propositions, etc. In no time he’ll be settled down with a nice wife or two, bouncing his small kids on the knees. He’s better off than most of you guys. But at least so far we’ve been spared the usual trite saying “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Thank God for small favours. Well, he does, at present, have access to three cells rather than the usual one. And the mail he has been allowed to get includes some love letters from women suffering from [Bonnie and Clyde syndrome,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia) as it will for most notorious criminals. So I suppose there are two nuggets of truth in this pile of hogwash. Blind squirrel, nut, the usual. (The only references to his food preferences I can find are from the original detention hearing, when he demanded he not be served halal food. The judge basically answered, _Um, fine, you realize that’s the_ default _for prisoners, right? And that you would have to specifically request halal food? Because that stuff costs extra, and we’ve got a budget to keep._) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/54 "2012-04-19T10:33:32Z")
The premise of “multiple counts of self defence” reminds me of the excellent Half Life Machinima series, Freeman’s Mind > [@Episode 12](#): > > Freeman: So, yeah, I’m killing people now! But that was not murder. It was totally self-defense. Just because I had a submachine gun doesn’t change anything. It just lets me defend more efficiently. I haven’t murdered anyone - well, not today anyway. > [@Episode 12](#): > > … and that puts me at six or seven counts of self-defense. > [@Episode 13](#): > > HECU: I killed twelve dumbass scientists and not one of them fought back. This sucks! > Freeman: Yeah, I guess that’s what happens when you shoot everyone on a rescue operation. But not to worry; I’m a scientist, and I’m armed like a secessionist. Hey, that rhymes! > [HECU open fire; Gordon shoots them] > Freeman: Ah, okay! Fine! I should have known you guys aren’t into poetry! I guess I can’t completely blame you. That wasn’t a perfect rhyme—the syllable count was off. So, what’s that make? Twelve, fifteen counts of self-defense with an automatic weapon? I’m losing count and I don’t think the cops are gonna buy that anymore. > [@Episode 22](#): > > Freeman: Man, if I get indicted once I leave here, this is getting harder and harder to explain. I don’t think anyone’s gonna buy a few dozen counts of self-defense with a submachine gun. I think there’s kind of an unspoken rule in our society that if this many people are trying to kill you, you’re supposed to be dead. I need to talk to an attorney. Maybe there’s some sort of Rambo clause. But wait, Rambo goes to prison after the first movie. Fuck! ([Series here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J80KD4BG7M), it’s worth nothing that this is one scenario where it really is a few dozen counts of legitimate self defense) ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/55 "2012-04-19T18:21:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ah, the Monsieur Verdoux defense, as Chaplin would tell him, Verdoux still was declared guilty anyhow. He went further into his defense: [QUOTE=The New York Times, April 19, 2012] Mr. Breivik compared the Knights Templar to Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network, saying “If you look at Al Qaeda before 9/11, it was becoming established. After 9/11, it became established.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/56 "2012-04-19T20:16:27Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > I can suggest some research into the general consensus in Norway about how this atrocity more than anything demands that we uphold our principles of humane treatment of criminals, no matter how heinous the crime. Also, you could read the statements from the kids who, you know, actually were there and ran for their lives. So why don’t you just let us take care of our assholes the way we think is the right way and rather concentrate on your own asshole? > > FYI, some civilized nations have abandoned the medieval penal system of dungeons, hangings, drawing and quartering. I’m proud to be living in one of them. I’m American, but I just thought this bore repeating. ---
**Author:** ![abel29a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@abel29a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abel29a)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/57 "2012-04-19T21:52:42Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The media isn’t very attentive if it mis-translates practically the first words out if his mouth – his plea. > > But then again, maybe that was American media – which, attentive or not, is not the brightest bulb on the world media string. Did the BBC or other English-language media get it wrong too? Can’t blame the media here - it was the official court translator who made the guaffe. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/58 "2012-04-19T22:03:32Z")
So he’s using the “some people just need killin’” defense? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/59 "2012-04-19T22:25:04Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So he’s using the “some people just need killin’” defense? Looks like it. I know this is an international story and everything, but I wish he was on Judge Judy. (I know, I know, there’s no way he would be.) I could just see Judge Judith Sheindlin as the judge. Breivik: It was in self-defense… Judge Judy: Do. Not. Speak. Breivik: But the Americans dropped the Atomic- Judge Judy: Listen to me. Breivik: If you look at Al Qaeda before 9/11… Judge Judy: Listen to me. You killed 77 people! Breivik: …it was becoming established. Judge Judy: Mr. Breivik, you killed 77 innocent, defenseless people. I don’t want to hear any of your ridiculous reasoning. Bailiff, get him out of here!! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070/60 "2012-04-19T22:42:30Z")
I think if he appeared on Judge Judy, he wouldn’t even recognise the court’s authority since she is Jewish. In fact, he’d probably invoke a similar principle that Israel used to ignore an international court ruling because it didn’t have any Israeli judges on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-you-kill-77-people-in-self-defense/619070.md?page=4)