# How close did they come to admitting Xena and Gabriele were dykes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 12, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962 "2007-09-12T19:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/41 "2007-09-14T04:28:10Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Let me guess, Mr. Excellent, you’re a big fan of Monty Python’s fish slapping dance? ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZMKCLyhBBwI/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZMKCLyhBBwI?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [/QUOTE] That was excellent! Huzzah for fish! ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/42 "2007-09-14T10:38:24Z")
The funny thing to me is, in the old Greek versions, Hercules and Iolaus were explicitly stated to be lovers. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/43 "2007-09-14T17:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] [hijack - and I’m sorry for it] I just had an amazing revelation and this thread is the sole purpose of it, so I will do a quick hijack and be on my way. Ever since saw Autolycus’ user name it’s been bugging me. I didn’t know where I’d heard it, but I knew I had. Now, that his name (from **garygnu** ’s link) has come up in a Xena thread it came to me like a trout in the face. And I claimed to be a Bruce Campbell fan! That is all. [/hijack] [/QUOTE] Naughty, bad Bruce Campbell fan! I knew the user name reference and always picture Bruce Campbell when Autolycus posts. I don’t think the ladle thing is beyond him either. Any gay subtext in Hercules was really underplayed because everyone knows that hot lesbian chicks are okay on mainstream TV but hot gay guys require their own cable TV channel. Straight women can tolerate lesbian subtext by thinking, “they’re just really, really good friends” but only gay guys and the occasional shipper will accept the male homosexual subtext. By the way, Gabrielle and Xena were just really, really good friends. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/44 "2007-09-14T17:51:55Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] hot gay guys require their own cable TV channel [/QUOTE] So that’s why there’s a separate _Fine Living_ channel now! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/45 "2007-09-14T18:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] Any gay subtext in Hercules was really underplayed because everyone knows that hot lesbian chicks are okay on mainstream TV but hot gay guys require their own cable TV channel. Straight women can tolerate lesbian subtext by thinking, “they’re just really, really good friends” but only gay guys and the occasional shipper will accept the male homosexual subtext. [/QUOTE] They were just really good friends running around in tight leather shorts. Wait a minute… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/46 "2007-09-14T18:05:13Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] …only gay guys and the occasional shipper will accept the male homosexual subtext. [/QUOTE] “Shipper”? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/47 "2007-09-14T18:10:25Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] “Shipper”? [/QUOTE] On another message board, I kept running across this term, and it took forever for me to figure out what it meant. Apparently, it is a term for a fan who is highly invested in seeing one particular relationship work out for the character. You see it a lot in discussions of the Gilmore Girls, for example…which guy was Lorelei going to end up with? I don’t remember the guys’ names, because I don’t watch the show, but you were either a Lorelai/guy A shipper, or a Lorelai/Guy B shipper. ETA: Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about this! I’m not up with all lingo these crazy kids use these days. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/48 "2007-09-14T18:12:10Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] “Shipper”? [/QUOTE] Fans with a particular interest in a romantic pairing between two characters in a TV show, movie, comic, etc. Often as not, the pairing is invented by the fans, and not present or even hinted at in the source material. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/49 "2007-09-14T18:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Fans with a particular interest in a romantic pairing between two characters in a TV show, movie, comic, etc. Often as not, the pairing is invented by the fans, and not present or even hinted at in the source material. [/QUOTE] And often the pair are same sex, like Kirk and Spock, but there may be another specific term for that type of shipping. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/50 "2007-09-14T18:45:48Z")
Ah…(relation)shipper. Got it. I’m a Spuffy shipper. And a Logan/Veronica shipper. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/51 "2007-09-14T19:07:02Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] And often the pair are same sex, like Kirk and Spock, but there may be another specific term for that type of shipping. [/QUOTE] slash ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/52 "2007-09-14T19:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] slash [/QUOTE] Ah yes, that’s it! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/53 "2007-09-14T21:03:36Z")
I don’t think “slash” is specifically same sex pairings, though. It’s just a reference to the naming convention for that sort of fan fiction, where the two parties’ names are seperated by a “/” Like Harry/Hermione, or Buffy/Cordelia. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/54 "2007-09-14T21:10:55Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I don’t think “slash” is specifically same sex pairings, though. It’s just a reference to the naming convention for that sort of fan fiction, where the two parties’ names are seperated by a “/” Like Harry/Hermione, or Buffy/Cordelia. [/QUOTE] That’s how I’ve always understood it: shippers were all about the “will they or won’t they” discussions, slash writers dealt with the “when will they, how many times, and in what positions” side of things: no same-sex connatations, other than the fact that most of the early slash was Kirk/Spock. If anyone’s ever read the novel for _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, you’ll know that Roddenberry dealt with that stuff within the first few pages. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/55 "2007-09-14T21:20:06Z")
I beg to differ. On every board I’ve ever hung out on, “slash” meant “same-sex.” Xander/Willow is just fanfic. Xander/Spike is slash. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/56 "2007-09-14T21:24:55Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I beg to differ. On every board I’ve ever hung out on, “slash” meant “same-sex.” Xander/Willow is just fanfic. Xander/Spike is slash. [/QUOTE] Then why do they call it slash? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/57 "2007-09-14T21:33:18Z")
My understanding is it comes from the days of ST:TOS fanfic, where the dominant pairing seemed to be Kirk/Spock. If you google “slash fic,” I’ll bet that the overwhelming majority of sites and stories are same-sex pairings. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/58 "2007-09-14T21:57:36Z")
For internet lingo, wikipedia is a good reference. [Slash Fiction](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction) > [@](#): > > Slash fiction is a genre of fan fiction. It focuses on the depiction of sexual or romantic relationships between two or more male characters, who are not necessarily engaged in relationships in the canon universe. While the term originally was restricted to fan fiction in which one or more male media characters were involved in an explicit adult relationship as a primary plot element, it is currently more generally used to refer to any pairing between male characters. The term is also sometimes applied to fiction focusing on relationships between female characters; however, some fans distinguish femslash as a separate genre. [Shipping (fandom)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_%28fandom%29) > [@](#): > > Shipping, derived from the word “relationship”, is a general term for fans’ emotional and/or intellectual involvement with the ongoing development of romance in a work of fiction. Though technically applicable to any such involvement, it refers chiefly to various related social dynamics observable on the Internet, and is seldom used outside of that context. > > Shipping can involve virtually any kind of relationship — from the well-known and established, to the ambiguous or those undergoing development, and even to the highly improbable and the blatantly impossible. People involved in shipping (or shippers) assert that the relationship does exist, will exist, or simply that they would like it to exist. ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/59 "2007-09-14T22:18:21Z")
[QUOTE=maggenpye] There was also a groundhog day episode where Xena relives the same day over and over. One morning out of the many, during his morning greeting, Joxer looks at one of the women and says “It that a hickey?” the women look at each other and grin. [/QUOTE] It was the episode called “Been There, Done That”, and sorry, but you’re remembering that wrong. They didn’t grin at each other or even look at each other when he said that. They both looked somewhat guiltily at nothing in particular while an uncomfortable silence passed. It was hilarious, especially because of Joxer’s unrequited crush on Gabrielle. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962/60 "2007-09-15T00:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Xander/Willow is just fanfic. [/QUOTE] Xander/Willow is het. Xander/Spike is, indeed, slash. Willow/Buffy is [del]canon[/del]femslash, or else just slash. Femslash is more common, IME. Willow and Xander being buddy-buddy is gen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-did-they-come-to-admitting-xena-and-gabriele-were-dykes/418962.md?page=4)