# How close to a universal influenza vaccine?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 30, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478 "2018-03-30T14:11:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 4
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478/1 "2018-03-30T14:11:48Z")
I was watching a show (well, series of shows) on the Science Channel last night about various virus’s and their effects on humanity. They talked about small pox, ebola and, of course, influenza. I was un-surprised to see that influenza is by far the most deadly year in and year out. I was a bit surprised by the number of annual deaths they claimed for the US…50,000 on average (some digging this morning puts it more in the range of 22k-48k…still a bit of a shock since that’s more than drunk driving deaths per year :eek:). One thing they mentioned that I had not heard about though was that I guess a lot of companies are working on a universal influenza vaccine that could account for most or all strains and maybe be good for years at a time. What’s the story on that? And how realistic is it? After they discussed the way they do vaccines today and how long it takes to produce one, it seems like this would be a great thing…if it can be done at all. Can it?
(Put this in GD as I figured there might not be a GQ style answer)
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478/2 "2018-03-30T20:42:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Scientists say they are on the verge of creating a universal flu vaccine
>
> ```
> Microbiologist Peter Palese is one of several scientists working on what they call the holy grail of flu: a universal vaccine.
> It would protect against all strains of the virus and be durable for multiple years – if not a lifetime.
> Palese says we are years away from a universal vaccine, but not decades.
>
> ```
> **[Scientists say they are on the verge of creating a universal flu vaccine](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/scientists-say-they-are-on-the-verge-of-creating-a-universal-flu-vaccine.html)**
>
> A universal flu vaccine would protect against all strains of the virus and be durable for multiple years – if not a lifetime.
But one reads frequently about imminent medical breakthroughs–which turn out to be very slow to arrive.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478/3 "2018-03-31T01:20:42Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> I was un-surprised to see that influenza is by far the most deadly year in and year out. I was a bit surprised by the number of annual deaths they claimed for the US…50,000 on average (some digging this morning puts it more in the range of 22k-48k…still a bit of a shock since that’s more than drunk driving deaths per year :eek:).
Most of those death are people already vulnerable: infants or elderly patients. For many elderly, it is matter of the influenza killing them before their congestive heart failure or lung cancer or additional strokes or complications of diabetes did. So it might not be seen as that shocking.
> [@XT](#):
>
> One thing they mentioned that I had not heard about though was that I guess a lot of companies are working on a universal influenza vaccine that could account for most or all strains and maybe be good for years at a time. What’s the story on that? And how realistic is it? After they discussed the way they do vaccines today and how long it takes to produce one, it seems like this would be a great thing…if it can be done at all. Can it?
My laymans understanding is that the influenza virus changes the outward shape of the virus quickly, creating a different strain. And human body defenses are mostly keyed to recognize the outward shape of foreign substances, so they don’t catch the new strain. Other diseases don’t change so much, thus ones like measles, mumps, etc. can be warded off for lifetime by one vaccine shot.
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/scientists-say-they-are-on-the-verge-of-creating-a-universal-flu-vaccine.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/scientists-say-they-are-on-the-verge-of-creating-a-universal-flu-vaccine.html)
>
> But one reads frequently about imminent medical breakthroughs–which turn out to be very slow to arrive.
For example, penicillin was discovered in 1928. But it wasn’t widely available until 1944 or 1945 – 16 or 17 years later. (Most military medics in WWII didn’t have any penicillin available – they were using mostly sulfa drugs to fight infections.)
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-a-universal-influenza-vaccine/811478/4 "2018-03-31T03:43:59Z")
(if I’m wrong, someone correct me. This is my understanding of how it works).
Flu vaccines work because they teach the body to recognize the H proteins on the surface of the flu virus, flu viruses have a potential combination of 17 different H proteins and 9 different N proteins (hence names like H1N1, H5N2, etc). The problem is there are 17 different H proteins and a vaccine that teaches the body to recognize one will not work on other H proteins. Or the H protein may mutate, making the vaccine ineffective or less effective. Or they could create a vaccine for the H2 protein, but the flu virus that hits could be the H7 protein virus.
This is a clinical trial on a universal flu vaccine. It used ‘core proteins’ rather than the surface H proteins to teach the immune system how to recognize and fight the flu. Since the core proteins don’t change much, that would work across viruses and I hope not mutate as much.
> **[The World's First Universal Flu Vaccine Is Already Undergoing Clinical Trials](https://www.sciencealert.com/universal-flu-vaccine-funded-by-gv-clinical-trials)**
>
> A company in the UK is currently conducting a clinical trial of what could become the first universal flu vaccine in the world - an elusive goal that would have massive benefits for global public health and eliminate our need for annual injections.
However with viruses evolving so fast I wonder if the flu would just start mutating those proteins instead. Then again we have a wide range of vaccines against viruses and those work well.