# How close to fascism is Russia, really ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141 "2015-10-10T13:22:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/21 "2015-10-10T16:17:53Z")
**How close to fascism is Russia, really ?** She can see Russia from her house. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/22 "2015-10-10T16:22:24Z")
[-chop- need to find a better source] ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/23 "2015-10-10T16:27:02Z")
Fuck the national review I prefer [Vice.com](http://Vice.com) [https://www.vice.com/read/aleksandr-dugin-russian-expansionism](https://www.vice.com/read/aleksandr-dugin-russian-expansionism) > [@](#): > > While Dugin argues that Eurasianism is an ideology that differs from the communism of the Soviet Union or the national socialism of Nazi Germany, he spent our conversation making me think otherwise. The ideologue, who is known for [his proximity to fascism](http://www.academia.edu/194083/The_Palingenetic_Thrust_of_Russian_Neo-Eurasianism_Ideas_of_Rebirth_in_Aleksandr_Dugins_Worldview), believes that Russia is currently undergoing a “conservative revolution” that will see any liberal traits extinguished and a new ideologically-driven land emerge under Putin. This shift will deliver a centralized state where the Russian population will be under the ultimate control of the government and have many of their civil liberties removed, much like life during the rule of the Soviet Union. > As for the future of the people themselves, Dugin added: “I think that the new Russian identity and ideology will be constructed on the basis of people as the central political reality—not ethnic or racial, but the people as a community." By this, he means a society where individual freedoms are ignored and everything is organized for the glory of the state—effectively, a return to totalitarianism. This idea, he admits, is based upon the construction of the state under Nazi Germany. So has he really got Putin’s ear, or what ? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/24 "2015-10-10T17:29:54Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Well, what you seem to have here is a minister who made anti-semitic comments during a race riot 24 years ago and who now is an adviser to the White House. Interesting perspective on things, to say the least. If we had a KKK “minister” who made “remarks” during lynching (I do remind you that Jews were maimed and killed during “the race riot”), and then the said “minister” was now an adviser to The White House, you would still maintain that the US is not close to Nazism? How about if we had 2 ministers like that? How about 18 “ministers” like that? How about 74 “ministers” like that? > [@Hiker](#): > > I can understand why you do not like that - but if you are under the impression that this makes the situation in the US today in any way comparable to the situation in Nazi Germany, you probably failed history class. I dropped out of school before any history lessons started, so please do educate me as you have been so kindly doing. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/25 "2015-10-10T17:31:45Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > So has he really got Putin’s ear, or what ? You mean, has he got Putin’s ear in the same way as anti-Semitic ideologues in the US got Obama’s ear or worse? The answer is, of course, no. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/26 "2015-10-10T17:32:44Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Interesting perspective on things, to say the least. > If we had a KKK “minister” who made “remarks” during lynching (I do remind you that Jews were maimed and killed during “the race riot”), and then the said “minister” was now an adviser to The White House, you would still maintain that the US is not close to Nazism? > How about if we had 2 ministers like that? > How about 18 “ministers” like that? > How about 74 “ministers” like that? > > I dropped out of school before any history lessons started, so please do educate me as you have been so kindly doing. Find a new home for this argument there’s a good chap ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/27 "2015-10-10T17:37:41Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > The main ideologue of the pogrom, one Al Sharpton, visited The White House at least [73 times](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2973067/Al-Sharpton-returns-White-House-73RD-visit-Obama-discuss-problems-facing-minorities.html) since 2009. How many times has David Axelrod met with Obama in the White House? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/28 "2015-10-10T17:55:47Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There seems to be something in the Russian culture that is more authoritarian-friendly than in a lot of countries. I’m sure that limited government _could_ work there–but they would have to work harder at it than some countries. The whole of Russian history, even in modern times, is one dictator after another, some of which were benevolent. > > Freedom is messy and in some senses disorderly. Some people prefer living under a system that makes certain choices for you. Americans are very good at believing their own propaganda sometimes. Russia is a huge multilingual and multinational country and the powers of Moscow in many far off regions and republics are very limited. This was also the case in the USSR post Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/29 "2015-10-10T18:02:51Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Americans are very good at believing their own propaganda sometimes. Russia is a huge multilingual and multinational country and the powers of Moscow in many far off regions and republics are very limited. This was also the case in the USSR post Stalin. All that land, all those borders, and so few people to police it and hold it together. Is this the underlying reason for the hostility to homosexuality - there’s simply a drive to populate the territory ? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/30 "2015-10-10T18:12:27Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > What do you mean? Don’t examples provided above demonstrate that avowed anti-Semites are enjoying close relationship with the current US President? No “avowed anti-Semites” have a close relationship to the President. You do know what “avowed” means, right? On the other hand, many, many Jews do have a close relationship with President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/31 "2015-10-10T18:12:44Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > I dropped out of school before any history lessons started, so please do educate me as you have been so kindly doing. I am not sure that you will welcome the lesson, but I shall give it a shot: > [@](#): > > Kristallnacht … was a pogrom (a series of coordinated deadly attacks) against Jews throughout Nazi Germany and Austria on 9–10 November 1938, carried out by SA paramilitary forces and non-Jewish civilians. German authorities looked on without intervening. The name Kristallnacht comes from the shards of broken glass that littered the streets after Jewish-owned stores, buildings, and synagogues had their windows smashed. > > Estimates of the number of fatalities caused by the pogrom have varied. Early reporting estimated that 91 Jewish people were murdered during the attacks. Modern analysis of German scholarly sources by historians such as Richard J. Evans puts the number much higher. When deaths from post-arrest maltreatment and subsequent suicides are included, the death toll climbs into the hundreds. > > Additionally, 30,000 were arrested and incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps. Jewish homes, hospitals, and schools were ransacked, as the attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Over 1,000 synagogues were burned (95 in Vienna alone) and over 7,000 Jewish businesses destroyed or damaged. In the Nazi version of the pogrom not only was the magnitude of violence far greater, it encompassed also almost the entire country, happened under the eyes of the authorities and was supported by large parts of the general public. Hardly any of the perpetrators faced prosecution of any kind. Instead the Jewish victims were often arrested in the aftermath. The [Kristallnacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht)happened at a time when Jews in Germany had already been legally [reduced to second class citizens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany#Racial_policies_regarding_the_Jews.2C_1933.E2.80.931940): > [@](#): > > On April 1, 1933, the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses was observed throughout Germany. Only six days later, the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service was passed, banning Jews from government jobs. It is notable that the proponents of this law, and the several thousand more that were to follow, most frequently explained them as necessary to prevent the infiltration of damaging, “alien-type” (Artfremd) hereditary traits into the German national or racial community (Volksgemeinschaft). These laws meant that Jews were now indirectly and directly dissuaded or banned from privileged and superior positions reserved for “Aryan Germans”. From then on, Jews were forced to work at more menial positions, becoming second-class citizens or to the point they were “illegally residing” in Nazi Germany. The list of opression suffered by Jews in Nazi Germany does not end there, but if you still claim that Jews in today’s United States are suffering a similar fate, more information will probably not change that. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/32 "2015-10-10T18:14:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How many times has David Axelrod met with Obama in the White House? Who is David Axelrod, if you don’t mind me asking? Is that someone who could explain to President Obama the abhorrence of anyone who’s preaching anti-Semitism? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/33 "2015-10-10T18:16:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No “avowed anti-Semites” have a close relationship to the President. You do know what “avowed” means, right? Yes, avowed anti-Semite would be someone who’s leading a march, with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/34 "2015-10-10T18:17:13Z")
Thing about fascist countries is that they have all been destroyed, or the regime deposed after a few decades at most. How would someone like Dugin propose to make Eurasian fascism sustainable given that it so often seems to end in failure or destruction ? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/35 "2015-10-10T18:17:46Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > if you still claim that Jews in today’s United States are suffering a similar fate Where did I claim that? Please provide a quote. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/36 "2015-10-10T18:19:28Z")
Can you please take the Al Sharpton debate to a different thread? ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/37 "2015-10-10T18:23:07Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Where did I claim that? Please provide a quote. > Thank you. Well - you asked the question “How close is the US to Nazism?” And when **Little Nemo** (correctly) told you “Not at all.”, you wouldn’t have it. So do you or do you not believe that the US is “close to Nazism” - now that you have been given an idea what Nazism entails? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/38 "2015-10-10T18:23:19Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Who is David Axelrod, if you don’t mind me asking? Is that someone who could explain to President Obama the abhorrence of anyone who’s preaching anti-Semitism? Axelrod is one of Obama’s closest friends and advisors, and ran his past election campaigns. He’s also Jewish (among many others close to Obama). ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/39 "2015-10-10T18:26:20Z")
Axelrod went that-a-way ----\> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18760879#post18760879](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18760879#post18760879) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/40 "2015-10-10T18:26:36Z")
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