# How close to fascism is Russia, really ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141 "2015-10-10T13:22:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/41 "2015-10-10T18:27:57Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Yes, avowed anti-Semite would be someone who’s leading a march, with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”. I was curious to learn about this person and I searched on the terms. I learned from the reading he is kind of agittor, but a[rticles like this](http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial_opinion/opinion/time_put_sharpton_wars_behind_us) seem to me to say he is not so much an “avowed anti semite” but a grand opportunist with little ethics. It seems to have no good relation with the idea of fascism, these claims, and most seem quite ignorant even distorted None of it has to do with the russia ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/42 "2015-10-10T18:28:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Meh. You guys are just arguing over how to define “fascism”. If the OP’s question is rewritten as “how close is Russia to a kleptocratic thugocracy where the dictator routinely sics law enforcement (including assailants and assassins) and a biased judiciary on his personal enemies and rivals in a bid to reinforce his own power and the wealth and power of those he favours”, I’d say “pretty darn close.” Well, sure, but as you probably have figured it out, that itself is only authoritarian clientelism that you can trace all the way back to Marius and Sulla and probably way firther, as opposed to “fascism” as a specific 20th century ideological construct. Even if there are minds arount the Putin political machine that seek to create some sort of grand ideological motivation for the statu quo to outlive him, as of this time it still does not seem to have coalesced. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/43 "2015-10-10T18:33:26Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well, sure, but as you probably have figured it out, that itself is only authoritarian clientelism that you can trace all the way back to Marius and Sulla and probably way firther, as opposed to “fascism” as a specific 20th century ideological construct. Even if there are minds arount the Putin political machine that seek to create some sort of grand ideological motivation for the statu quo to outlive him, as of this time it still does not seem to have coalesced. Keep going pls. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/44 "2015-10-10T18:45:45Z")
I think I’m concluding that if you want to know about something, you can’t beat buying a nice thick book about it and spending some quality reading time. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/45 "2015-10-10T18:51:22Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Who is David Axelrod, if you don’t mind me asking? Is that someone who could explain to President Obama the abhorrence of anyone who’s preaching anti-Semitism? He was Obama’s senior advisor through 2011, and was one of his key strategists during both of his election campaigns. Arguably, there would never have been an Obama presidency without him. If you don’t know his name, then your ignorant of some _very_ basic facts about the Obama administration. Also, he’s Jewish. The answer to my earlier rhetorical question, incidentally, is “Almost daily for four years.” So, what do you think says more about the degree to which anti semitism has found a foot hold in this White House? The anti Semite who’s visited 73 times? Or the Jew who’s visited over a thousand times? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/46 "2015-10-10T20:18:25Z")
Sorry about your thread, Mr. Qwertysad. I thought you asked an interesting question. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/47 "2015-10-10T20:40:50Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Are they known to advocate one of the main tenets of fascism–a virulent anti-Semitism, such as that exhibited by major players of Democratic Party? Assuming that is a trait–they substitute hostility to Muslims. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/48 "2015-10-10T21:14:04Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Keep going pls. Just a way to say, that the vision of a Strong Russia surrounded by obedient vassal states and feared by adversaries, standing spiritually/ideologically firm against external “decadence”, with a cronyist privileged elite atop which a Strong Leader you must flatter, seems to be something that has transcended political eras. In the Russian case you substitute Marxist-Leninist politicoeconomics with “Third Rome” theology or Russian nationalism or panslavism depending on the times but that only changes the language of the discourse. But also in that sense it’s not that different from clientelist empires going back to Rome so it’s not even a particularly Russian thing except insofar as it’s more visible due to Russia’s size and position of relative power. Though I must admit, the common everyday usage has rendered “fascism” into a shorthand for almost anything in a regime that is authoritarian/totalitarian but not marxist-leninist, and in some cases just anything that is illiberal, or even just anything political they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/49 "2015-10-10T21:28:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He was Obama’s senior advisor through 2011, and was one of his key strategists during both of his election campaigns. Did he explain to President Obama that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of (the one and only, AFAIK) Jewish pogrom on the US soil in the 20th century? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/50 "2015-10-10T21:29:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Axelrod is one of Obama’s closest friends and advisors, and ran his past election campaigns. Did he explain to President Obama that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of (the one and only, AFAIK) Jewish pogrom on the US soil in the 20th century? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/51 "2015-10-10T21:38:35Z")
I think we have learned from this thread that the putative Russian slide to fascism is missing the key element of Al Sharpton visiting the Kremlin. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/52 "2015-10-10T21:41:47Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Did he explain to President Obama that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of (the one and only, AFAIK) Jewish pogrom on the US soil in the 20th century? you are calling a small riot (I read the wikipage on this riot in New York) a pogram (an organized massacre of helpless people [Pogrom Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pogrom) - I looked this word up to know its meaning)??? strange. perhaps you could consider some professional attention. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/53 "2015-10-10T21:42:46Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Assuming that is a trait–they substitute hostility to Muslims. :dubious: Does their hostility to Muslims include doing things like looting Muslim-owned shops, killing Muslims, and marching with slogans like “Death to Muslims” in a similar manner to that of one of he closest advisors of the President Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/54 "2015-10-10T21:46:30Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > you are calling a small riot a pogram Yes, I call an event, where Jews were specifically targeted for beatings and murder because of their ethicity, their property was looted, and marches were held with slogans such as “Death to Jews”, a pogrom. As was explained above, the main ideologue of this specific pogrom was Al Sharpton, a close advisor to President Obama. As was also explained above, Al Sharpton is far from the only avowed anti-Semite, who are close to President Obama. The only argument in defense of this travesty I’ve heard so far is “Well, President Obama also has Jewish advisors, so there!”, which is a moral equivalent of “I’m not racist, in fact, some of my best friends are black, but…” ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/55 "2015-10-10T21:49:23Z")
… well… from reading the wikipedia your … interesting rendition of this event does not seem very well established… All understood, it will be interesting to see future performances. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/56 "2015-10-10T21:53:52Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > … well… from reading the wikipedia your … interesting rendition of this event does not seem very well established… What, exactly, does not seem very well established? Were Jews not beaten and killed for the sole crime of being Jews? Was Jewish property not looted, because it belonged to Jews? Was not an anti-Semitic march held with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”? Did Al Sharpton not lead that march? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/57 "2015-10-10T21:58:06Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Did he explain to President Obama that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of (the one and only, AFAIK) Jewish pogrom on the US soil in the 20th century? As far as I know, Axelrod isn’t mentally ill, so probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/58 "2015-10-10T22:01:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As far as I know, Axelrod isn’t mentally ill, so probably not. Ok, so Axelrod hasn’t explained to President Obama that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of a Jewish pogrom. Do you think President Obama himself knows that Al Sharpton was a main ideologue of a Jewish pogrom? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/59 "2015-10-10T22:12:03Z")
Obama has never struck as especially delusional, so probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141/60 "2015-10-10T22:12:32Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Well - you asked the question “How close is the US to Nazism?” And when **Little Nemo** (correctly) told you “Not at all.”, you wouldn’t have it. > So do you or do you not believe that the US is “close to Nazism” - now that you have been given an idea what Nazism entails? You’re not providing quote I asked you to provide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-fascism-is-russia-really/734141.md?page=4)