# How close to Nazism is US , really ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483 "2015-10-12T22:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/1 "2015-10-12T22:26:29Z")
Inspired by [How close to fascism is Russia, really ?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=771613) thread, where, as \*\*Ravenman \*\* correctly pointed out there were [only 18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18762893#post18762893) anti-Semitic incidents in Russia in one year, while the same number in the US was a stunning 912. Using **Ravenman’s** criteria, the US [is 54 times closer to Nazism than Russia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18762893#post18762893) This is, of course, on top of US President repeatedly (73 times, at least) inviting to the White House known avowed anti-Semites. PS. Decided to open a separate thread for this topic, to avoid the subject clogging out other topics. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/2 "2015-10-12T22:33:16Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Inspired by > [How close to fascism is Russia, really ?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=771613) thread, where, as \*\*Ravenman \*\* correctly pointed out there were [only 18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18762893#post18762893) anti-Semitic incidents in Russia in one year, while the same number in the US was a stunning 912. Using Ravenman’s criteria, the US [is 54 times closer to Nazism than Russia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18762893#post18762893) > This is, of course, on top of US President repeatedly (73 times, at least) inviting to the White House known avowed anti-Semites. > > PS. Decided to open a separate thread for this topic, to avoid the subject clogging out other topics. I see you are going with Nazism this time instead of your flawed understanding of what fascism is. The US isn’t close in any way to Nazism, including antisemitic behaviors. Even trying to make the comparison is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/3 "2015-10-12T22:34:49Z")
Not close at all. Any such comparison is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/4 "2015-10-12T22:35:43Z")
So you managed to shut down the thread criticizing Russia, an decided to open a new thread redirecting it at the U.S.? Sorry - we’re not going to play your little games. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/5 "2015-10-12T22:36:55Z")
No, it is not my criteria. It is yours, as I said in that post. I also said it was a “stupid” point to make. Thank you for linking to my post which sets the record straight for everyone to see, in black and white, as compared to the obnoxiously wrong summary you posted. And the US is nowhere close to Nazism. See, for example, the popularly elected African American president. Twice over, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/6 "2015-10-12T22:38:16Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > This is, of course, on top of US President repeatedly (73 times, at least) inviting to the White House known avowed anti-Semites. And that was just from hosting the Association of Republican Governors’ holiday dinner last year! _rim shot_ 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/7 "2015-10-12T22:38:17Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I see you are going with Nazism this time instead of your flawed understanding of what fascism is. The US isn’t close in any way to Nazism, including antisemitic behaviors. Even trying to make the comparison is ridiculous. But \*\*Ravenman \*\* claims that US is at least 54 times closer to Nazism than Russia is–judged by the number of anti-Semitic incidents. This is on top of US President repeatedly entertaining a known avowed anti-Semite in the White House. Do these facts count for nothing, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/8 "2015-10-12T22:39:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, it is not my criteria. It is yours. Please provide a link where I claimed that a certain country is closer to Nazism than another country, based on the number of anti-Semitic incidents. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/9 "2015-10-12T22:42:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] And the US is nowhere close to Nazism. See, for example, the popularly elected African American president. Twice over, mind you. [/QUOTE] Hell…see any of the elected presidents or other officials. Nazism, and fascism is pretty much opposed to democracy…in fact, they saw their movement as solving the problem of both democracy AND communism, which they felt were both flawed (ironic, that). They encouraged private business, but only insofar as those private businesses served the state, so they were pretty much opposed to free market capitalism as well. They were against trade, since they saw that as weakening the state and making them more dependent on unreliable outside nations (full of weak folks who weren’t their kind). They attempted to create what they saw as a homogeneous ‘race’ and moral code (no homosexuals allowed either) either through forced deportation/abortion (unless you were of the in ‘race’ in which case abortion was illegal of course) or mass slaughter. There is really no point at which the US is anything like Nazism or Nazi Germany (or fascist Italy for that matter), so this is just the OP trying to…um, get our goat. Yeah, that’s it. What he wants to DO with our goat is best left unknown, however… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/10 "2015-10-12T22:42:52Z")
Let’s talk about Russia: Russia is fighting alongside and arming Israel’s enemies Syria, Iran and Hezbollah. Israeli Jews are being killed by Russian Katyusha rockets, Russian Sagger missiles and Russian Kalashnikov rifles. So yes, we know exactly who the enemy of the Jews is, and it ain’t the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/11 "2015-10-12T22:42:53Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > And that was just from hosting the Association of Republican Governors’ holiday dinner last year! _rim shot_ 🆒 No, this was based on the fact that a [man](http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/al-sharpton-led-his-first-anti-semitic-race-riot-crown-heights-twenty-three-years-ago-today) who lead “Death to the Jews” march being invited to the White House [73](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2973067/Al-Sharpton-returns-White-House-73RD-visit-Obama-discuss-problems-facing-minorities.html) times ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/12 "2015-10-12T22:44:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And the US is nowhere close to Nazism. But didn’t you provide us with the fact that there were only 18 anti-Semitic incidents in Russia in one year, while we now know the same number for the US is stunning 54 times higher? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/13 "2015-10-12T22:48:16Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > But \*\*Ravenman \*\* claims that US is at least 54 times closer to Nazism than Russia is–judged by the number of anti-Semitic incidents. This is on top of US President repeatedly entertaining a known avowed anti-Semite in the White House. > Do these facts count for nothing, in your opinion? Dude, you linked to the other thread…we can read the exchange. There is this scroll up thingy that we can all do now…you should really get in step. However, even if Ravenman made this assertion, that is meaningless to the question. I think even he’d agree he’s not an infallible font of all wisdom and truthiness. As for facts, you’ve laid out zero supporting your theory that the US is close to Nazism. Hell, you haven’t even laid out facts that the US is closer to Nazism than Russia is. You’ve stated that Ravenman said that, by one factor, the US might be more antisemitic than Russia (and even that you distorted what he was saying, not realizing we can use that new fangled scroll up thingy you weren’t aware of). You don’t seem to even understand what Nazism OR fascism was. But I’m here to help…[here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcYU95kCAI) is a YouTube video that talks about fascism AND even discusses Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. You don’t even have to read…just click the link and watch the video! Then come back and lay out all the points you think the US is comparable. If you need another video on the US and democracy, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/14 "2015-10-12T22:49:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You’ve stated that Ravenman said that, by one factor, the US might be more antisemitic than Russia (and even that you distorted what he was saying, not realizing we can use that new fangled scroll up thingy you weren’t aware of). How, exactly, have I distorted what he was saying? 😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/15 "2015-10-12T22:52:49Z")
Someone’s angling for a ban. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/16 "2015-10-12T23:28:20Z")
The Anti-Defamation League publishes an annual report on anti-semitism. [Link.](http://global100.adl.org/) It judges that 9% of Americans harbor intolerance toward Jews. That makes the US tied for 95th out of 102 countries ranked for anti-semitism. For Russia, the score is roughly 2.5 to 3 times higher, at 24-30% depending on the year of the study, more or less in line with the global average, and tied for 55th place. First place is pretty obvious – the West Bank and Gaza, 93%, followed by Iraq at 92%. Greece surprised me at 69%, tied for 17th. Other interesting ratings are that South Korea is virtually tied with Iran, and Laos scores at virtually no anti-semitism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/17 "2015-10-13T00:30:03Z")
Og knows I’ll regret wading into this morass, but… The OP is getting at two separate things. 1. How close is the US to a NAZI state? Stupid question, and the answer is: not close. 2. Is Al Sharpton antisemitic. It’s pretty clear that he wants to concentrate on #2, and his evidence is that some guy once claimed to have heard Sharpton say “Kill the Jews”. I’m no fan of Sharpton, but that’s hardly persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/18 "2015-10-13T00:40:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Someone’s angling for a ban. Just because \*\*Ravenman \*\* invented an extremely large strawman ([using Alkash’s criteria, Russia is 18 times closer to Nazism](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18762893&postcount=89)), and then repeateadly failed to provide a link to a statement of mine, where I claimed that Russia is 18 times closer to Nazism, should on no account result in his ban. Freedom of speech is a right, even if it’s exercised by liars and intellectually dishonest people, such as the case here. Sure, an apology would be nice (not that one is forthcoming, knowing \*\*Ravenman \*\*quote well by now), but no ban, please. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/19 "2015-10-13T00:43:05Z")
It’s like he keeps making the exact same point over and over and doesn’t realize that no one cares. The one riot you keep talking about is neither representative of the policy of the American government nor the attitude of the general population. You have not submitted any evidence that Jesse Jackson’s visits to the White House were in any way related to or resulted in the proliferation of his alleged “Nazi” agenda. The fact that anti-semites do exist in America is not, by itself, convincing evidence of anything and actually a bit horrifying when compared to actual anti-Semitic nations like Egypt, Syria, and Iran. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/20 "2015-10-13T00:45:19Z")
A couple years ago, I was in Poland on a business trip. During some downtime, a friend/colleague of mine went on the tour of Auschwitz / Birkenau. I suggest the OP do the same to gain some perspective. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483.md?page=2)