# How close to Nazism is US , really ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483 "2015-10-12T22:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/41 "2015-10-13T18:15:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A combination of guns and evangelism, mostly, with a bit of prudery and racism thrown in. It’s a big country, anyway, roughly the size and population of western Europe, so there’s quite a lot of variability. > [@Ravenman](#): > > What do guns, evangelism, and prudery have to do with Nazis? Quite so, Ravenman; If you don’t mind, I’ll expound on that a bit. Bryan, the United States has had major revivals and religious…enthusiams…throughout it’s history. The 1857-1860 'Great Awakening, the preachers during the 1920’s (look up Father Coughlin as a good example). This one seems to be losing steam, and it hasn’t won all that many battles lately (gay rights are expanding, creationism/ID is pretty much defunct, abortion (while restricted) is still the law of the land). What I don’t see is any leadership that would take the reins and ride a wave into power (Robertson and Falwell were/are abominable, IMHO, but like Billy Graham they were part of the system). Plus they are either dead or decrepit and I don’t see anyone with the same fire to whip the “Holy Masses” into shape. Not that he/she isn’t out there, like a Nehemiah Scudder, but I can’t find one. As for prudery and racism, I suggest a visit to most of American history. Believe it or not, we’re living in something of a Golden Age comparitive to most of American history. Again, IMHO, but I think the record will back me up on this. I left off guns, for the simple reason that introducing guns (which have always been with us), usually tends to sidetrack the conversation into a derailment. Suffice it to say that compared with the 1960’s and 70’s, or even the 1920’s (and even earlier, the Anarchists and the birth of the Labor movement in the 1890’s) I am much less worried about revolution than you are. Which doesn’t mean you’re wrong…I just don’t see enough to convince that you are right. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/42 "2015-10-13T19:02:55Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > I am much less worried about revolution than you are. You’re negatively worried about revolution? As a minor correction, I was mistaken when I said the U.S. was about the size of Western Europe. The U.S. is almost the size of _all_ of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/43 "2015-10-13T19:07:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re negatively worried about revolution? Always with those negative waves, Ekers!! 🆒😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/44 "2015-10-13T19:11:09Z")
Ha, yes, well… go project your fears on someone else, please. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/45 "2015-10-13T19:14:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re negatively worried about revolution? > As a minor correction, I was mistaken when I said the U.S. was about the size of Western Europe. The U.S. is almost the size of _all_ of Europe. The Russians think Europe goes all the way across to the Pacific Ocean. Bless them, they’ll never be part of the gang. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/46 "2015-10-13T19:29:07Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > No, this was based on the fact that a [man](http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/al-sharpton-led-his-first-anti-semitic-race-riot-crown-heights-twenty-three-years-ago-today) who lead “Death to the Jews” march being invited to the White House [73](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2973067/Al-Sharpton-returns-White-House-73RD-visit-Obama-discuss-problems-facing-minorities.html) times I’ll assume your facts are correct, for now. What specific anti-semitic acts by the US government, in your view, have taken place as a result of these 73 invitations? If the answer is ‘none’, as I suspect it is, I don’t think you are making a very important point. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/47 "2015-10-13T19:30:22Z")
Nazisum, is far far away. I personally would be much more concerned with a left wing tyrant. However i doubt either would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/48 "2015-10-13T21:50:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A combination of guns If the left was smart, they’d realize a highly armed left would be the best protection against any sort of fascism-one of the biggest mistakes of the _Reichsbanner_ social democratic militia was that they did not in fact stage an armed rising after the Nazis took power. > [@](#): > > and evangelism, mostly, And what does evangelicalism have to do with anything? > [@](#): > > with a bit of prudery Pre-Nazi Germany and pre-fascist Italy were distinctly less prudish than the Anglo-Saxon democracies. > [@](#): > > and racism thrown in. Europe is far more racist than the United States. > [@davida03801](#): > > Nazisum, is far far away. I personally would be much more concerned with a left wing tyrant. However i doubt either would happen. I’m much more worried about plutocratic neoliberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/49 "2015-10-13T21:52:35Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Other than right wing militias calling for the overthrow of the government, Who don’t wield anything like the influence, sheer numbers, and de facto sanction to commit violence as the SA did in Weimar. > [@](#): > > a dysfunctional legislature incapable of selecting a leader, The Chancellor was the head of government in Weimar, the Speaker of the House is not. > [@](#): > > and a candidate who’s appealing to the masses through racist demagoguery we’re not close at all. Considering Trump isn’t openly calling for destruction of the Constitution and liberal government, he’s far more akin to previous right-wing populists in American history like George Wallace then he is to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/50 "2015-10-13T23:10:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And Obama, by association. Hmmm…that’s an interesting point you’re raising…Do you think this “Obama by association” problem could go away, if President Obama stopped associating so closely with avowed anti-Semites? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/51 "2015-10-13T23:16:03Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Hmmm…that’s an interesting point you’re raising…Do you think this “Obama by association” problem could go away, if President Obama stopped associating so closely with avowed anti-Semites? Obama does not associate closely with any “avowed anti-Semites”. He does associate very closely with many, many Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/52 "2015-10-13T23:24:46Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I’ll assume your facts are correct, for now. Please don’t. Check them yourselves and report back to us with your findings. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > What specific anti-semitic acts by the US government, in your view, have taken place as a result of these 73 invitations? I have no idea–and that’s why we need answers here. For example, we know that US relationship with Israel is going through some very rough patches. Is this result of normal political disagreements or is this result of President Obama associating so closely with the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc? If a known KKK leader led a “Death to n…gers” march on the heels of a lynching and murder of a black man, then later was invited to the White House 73 times, then some very pointed questions should be asked, such as: “Mr. President, do you think associating closely with known racists has no impact on your policy?” 'Mr. President, did this KKK leader ever express any remorse over leading a march with ‘Death to n…gers’ slogans"? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/53 "2015-10-13T23:34:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obama does not associate closely with any “avowed anti-Semites” We went through this already–President Obama associates closely with avowed anti-Semites, such as Al Sharpton > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He does associate very closely with many, many Jews. We went through this already as well–this is the moral equivalent of “I’m not racist! Some of best friends are black!” defense. Herman Goering associated closely with some Jews. He also associated closely with Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/54 "2015-10-13T23:39:30Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > We went through this already–President Obama associates closely with avowed anti-Semites, such as Al Sharpton Assuming you’re talking about the famous Al Sharpton, he is not an avowed anti-Semite. I still don’t think you know what “avowed” means. But I’m glad to see that this thread happened to go where you wanted it. 🙂 > [@](#): > > We went through this already as well–this is the moral equivalent of “I’m not racist! Some of best friends are black!” defense. > Herman Goering associated closely with some Jews. He also associated closely with Hitler. Right, and Goring was involved with the mistreatment and murder of tons of Jews. Obama has not been involved with the mistreatment and murder of Jews, and Al Sharpton is not Hitler. Since Sharpton is not an “avowed anti-Semite”, and hasn’t in fact done or said anything anti-Semitic in all his time associating in any way with Obama, and since Obama has not done or said anything anti-Semitic that I know of, it’s pretty easy to conclude that there’s no reason to believe Obama is an anti-Semite. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/55 "2015-10-13T23:47:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Assuming you’re talking about the famous Al Sharpton, he is not an avowed anti-Semite. I still don’t think you know what “avowed” means. So, you would not call a man who led a march (on the heels of racially-motivated murder of a Jew, followed by racially motivated beatings of Jews and destruction of Jewish property) with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”, an avowed anti-Semite? Fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. What kind of anti-Semite would you call Al Sharpton then? Your average run-of-the-mill anti-Semite? Not an anti-Semite? A friend of the Jews, perhaps? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Since Sharpton is not an “avowed anti-Semite”, and hasn’t in fact done or said anything anti-Semitic in all his time associating in any way with Obama, . Would you say it’s ok to associate with a man who led “Death to n…gers” march, as long as he’s not saying anything of the sort, while in your company? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/56 "2015-10-13T23:49:55Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > So, you would not call a man who led a march (on the heels of racially-motivated murder of a Jew, followed by racially motivated beatings of Jews and destruction of Jewish property) with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”, an avowed anti-Semite? > Fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. > What kind of anti-Semite would you call Al Sharpton then? > Your average run-of-the-mill anti-Semite? Not an anti-Semite? A friend of the Jews, perhaps? Sharpton may have been an anti-Semite at that time – I don’t know. I see no evidence that he has been one recently or is one now. > [@](#): > > Would you say it’s ok to associate with a man who led “Death to n…gers” march, as long as he’s not saying anything of the sort, while in your company? It would depend on when this was, what were the circumstances, whether he rejects his earlier actions or celebrates them, his actions since then, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/57 "2015-10-13T23:55:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sharpton may have been an anti-Semite at that time – I don’t know. “May have been”–you don’t think leading a march with slogans such as “Death to the Jews” qualifies one as an anti-Semite? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I see no evidence that he has been one recently or is one now. Do you have any evidence that Al Sharpton ever expressed regret over leading a march with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It would depend on when this was, Let’s say this was the day after a Jewish man was hunted down and stabbed to death, while Jews were beaten in the streets and their property was destroyed. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > whether he rejects his earlier actions Do you have any evidence that Al Sharpton ever rejected his earlier actions? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > his actions since then, etc. Let’s say since then Al Sharpton made a number of anti-Semitic remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/58 "2015-10-14T00:01:02Z")
“Avowed” means he has taken a vow promising that he will be an anti-Semite. Do you have any evidence that he has taken such s vow? If you mean to use “avowed” in its absolutely loosest metaphorical sense, you have to show that he has at least said affirmatively “I am an anti-Semite” and meant it as a matter of principle. Do you even have any evidence that he has done so? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/59 "2015-10-14T00:33:26Z")
Hey, this is the country that took Nazis, had them build big rockets for us, and we rode them to the moon. How do you know that Al Sharpton isn’t providing some technical expertise to the Government, just like Werner Von Braun did? That’s right. You don’t know what they talked about, do you. And you can’t show any Obama policies that are anti-Semitic. Man, you have less than nothing, OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483/60 "2015-10-14T00:57:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Europe is far more racist than the United States. I’m okay with saying pockets of Europe and pockets of the U.S. are inclined to fascism. The land areas and population are comparable that normal variability almost requires it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-close-to-nazism-is-us-really/734483.md?page=4)