# How closely should casting hew to characters' ethnicities and races? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486 "2015-06-14T04:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/161 "2015-07-07T22:36:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If it’s so important for Bond to be part of the aristocracy, why not have some of his ancestry be aristocracy from a different continent? I don’t think the UK is so insular as to reject the notion of foreign aristocracy. An Indian Bond would make a lot of sense on a lot of different levels. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/162 "2015-07-07T22:45:51Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The only stories where Bond’s whiteness really comes into play are **On Her Majesty’s Secret Service** (as a plot point, where he’s impersonating a viscount) and **Live and Let Die** (as a contrast to Mr. Big). But it’s really pretty important in those two. Doesn’t he also impersonate Peter Franks in **Diamonds Are Forever** – not to mention The Man With The Golden Gun, in **The Man With The Golden Gun**? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/163 "2015-07-07T22:53:57Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The only stories where Bond’s whiteness really comes into play are **On Her Majesty’s Secret Service** (as a plot point, where he’s impersonating a viscount) and **Live and Let Die** (as a contrast to Mr. Big). But it’s really pretty important in those two. [You forgot about the time he pretended to be Japanese.](http://bbs.boingboing.net/uploads/boingboing/52691/a7bdb4056ac5ddd8.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/164 "2015-07-08T00:08:01Z")
He also passed himself off as Klaus Hergesheimer by just faking a German accent. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/165 "2015-07-08T08:46:49Z")
I don’t think the old films are considered much in the continuity of the rebooted Bond. A black Bond opens up the possibility of him pretending to be a black person, anyway. For example, the big bad guy in the one where there was loads of voodoo (I like Bond films and have seen all them multiple times but am terrible at remembering the names of individual films). And there are easily enough black people in Europe and America for there to be a new black character that Bond was pretending to be - a black scientist or CIA bod or whatever - as well as characters from Africa itself. It could open up new storylines and settings. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/166 "2015-07-08T16:34:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I don’t think the old films are considered much in the continuity of the rebooted Bond. > > A black Bond opens up the possibility of him pretending to be a black person, anyway. For example, the big bad guy in the one where there was loads of voodoo (I like Bond films and have seen all them multiple times but am terrible at remembering the names of individual films). And there are easily enough black people in Europe and America for there to be a new black character that Bond was pretending to be - a black scientist or CIA bod or whatever - as well as characters from Africa itself. It could open up new storylines and settings. Plus, picture a black Bond in that reboot scene where Vesper figures that he went to Oxford, but obviously didn’t belong there, and they never let him forget it… ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/167 "2015-07-08T21:38:04Z")
Have you ever seen a movie where someone coughs - and then doesn’t end up with pneumonia or cancer? It’s annoying when a movie can’t include bits of reality without it meaning something, but it does. When a character is mentioned as being adopted, or having a certain kind of car, or growing up in a certain location, it all is portrayed as meaning something in the story. A movie can change a story, but needs to address each of the changes it makes. The unforgiveable part is when the movie tries to be true to part of the story and just change a few pieces for political or popular reasons. The Wild Wild West movie was noted as a prime example. Another is Start Trek Into Darkness. Khan Noonien Singh is played by a popular actor instead of one that fits the role. The movie didn’t address the issue appropriately and this takes me out of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/168 "2015-07-09T11:20:46Z")
How did Benedict Cumberbatch not fit the role of Khan? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/169 "2015-07-09T11:37:35Z")
He’s not Mexican. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/170 "2015-07-09T11:42:03Z")
“Noonian Singh” implies someone of southeast Asian ancestry. Of course, it’s entirely possible for a white guy to have such a name bestowed by his parents (or creators, for someone like Khan) but it does look a bit weird. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/171 "2015-07-09T11:49:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “Noonian Singh” implies someone of southeast Asian ancestry. > > Of course, it’s entirely possible for a white guy to have such a name bestowed by his parents (or creators, for someone like Khan) but it does look a bit weird. “Noonian,” so far as I can tell, is a made up name, so it doesn’t imply anything. As of today there are British people with Indian names, and three centuries from now—if they don’t exist already—there will be plenty who are racially indistinguishable from white Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/172 "2015-07-09T12:14:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, they said at the time _look, we genuinely tried to find a big white guy who was that light on his feet, and the best we could do were stuntmen who lacked the acting chops to make it as pro wrestlers; from every Oscar-caliber intimidator who can move like a nimble sumo, I assure you that we chose the palest._ I can’t stop laughing at this. > [@asterion](#): > > Regarding, say, Bond, I think it’s funny that while the recasting of Bond may not be mentioned in the movies It was, actually; in George Lazenby’s pre-credits action sequence in OHMSS the girl runs off afterwards. He turns to the camera and says “This never happened to that other fellow” IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/173 "2015-07-09T12:25:17Z")
Well, the original Khan Noonian Singh (who Cumberbatch’s character is supposed to be, in a weird timey-wimey sort of way) was said to be a Sikh. Now, Sikhism is a religion, but wikipedia tells me that many countries identify Sikh as designated ethnicity, and that Sikhs “self-identify as an ethnic minorty” and “believe that they are more than just a religion.” There does seem to be evidence that the character, as originally written, was intended to be ethnically Indian. Of course, he was played by the Mexican Ricardo Montalban, in the “one ethnic type is as good as any other” style of casting you often saw in the 60s. Whether that’s better or worse than having him played by a skinny white Englishman is up for debate. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/174 "2015-07-09T12:36:15Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > There does seem to be evidence that the character, as originally written, was intended to be ethnically Indian. 1. There are ethnically non-Indian Sikhs in the world. 2. There are Indians who are racially indistinguishable from Europeans. 3. Why do you think that an offhand comment from the 1960s TV series has any bearing on the character that Cumberbatch played? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/175 "2015-07-09T13:58:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Why do you think that an offhand comment from the 1960s TV series has any bearing on the character that Cumberbatch played? This. Scotty is not played by a Scottish actor (and wasn’t in TOS, either). Sulu is not played by a Japanese actor (Korean, actually). Spock is not played by a Vulcan actor… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/176 "2015-07-09T15:24:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > This. Scotty is not played by a Scottish actor (and wasn’t in TOS, either). Sulu is not played by a Japanese actor (Korean, actually). IIRC, before taking the part George Takei noted that ‘Sulu’ isn’t a Japanese name. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/177 "2015-07-09T15:25:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. There are ethnically non-Indian Sikhs in the world. > 2. There are Indians who are racially indistinguishable from Europeans. I did say “some evidence,” not “absolute certainty.” Actually, in the earliest version of the “Space Seed” script the character was named Ericsson, and was a stereotypically blond, blue-eyed Nordic type. > [@](#): > > 1. Why do you think that an offhand comment from the 1960s TV series has any bearing on the character that Cumberbatch played? Only because, as I understand the rather convoluted time-travel/alternate reality premise of the _Star Trek_ reboot, he’s supposed to be the same guy. On the other hand, it’s _Star Trek_. Looking for consistency in it may be a fool’s errand. And as mentioned, old-school Khan was played by a Mexican actor. So who the hell knows what ethnicity he’s supposed to be? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/178 "2015-07-09T16:19:04Z")
Wait, Takei isn’t Japanese? How did he wind up in an internment camp, then? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/179 "2015-07-09T16:31:40Z")
He was referring to John Cho. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-closely-should-casting-hew-to-characters-ethnicities-and-races/722486/180 "2015-07-09T16:42:45Z")
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