# How Come America Stopped Trying to Acquire More Land after Alaska and Hawaii? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420 "2001-08-21T21:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/21 "2001-08-21T23:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gorewonfla \* > \*\*Bush might make PR a state in a concession to Hispanics. Hoping he doesn’t lose them like the GOP lost blacks. \*\* Well it’s not really up to him. The Puerto Rican government has to petition for statehood themselves. They have historically put the matter up for popular vote, and historically the pro-statehood faction has never won a majority. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/22 "2001-08-22T00:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > We didn’t have to buy half of Mexico because we stole half of Mexico fair and square. Yup. Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, and California were all Spanish or Mexican holdings at one time or another. I seem to recall we fought a war over a lot of _that_ land as well . . . ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/23 "2001-08-22T00:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I never knew we invaded Canada and LOST??? What a trip. Learn something new everyday. Well, the War of 1812 has been a subject on this very Forum a minimum of three times in the last year–and in two of these threads, you were a participant: [Who won the War of 1812?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=77391) 07/09/2001 through 07/12/2001 [Did Canadians burn down the White House?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=63222) 03/12/2001 through 03/16/2001 [What is to stop the U.S. from invading Canada?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=36924) 09/01/2000 ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/24 "2001-08-22T00:34:16Z")
The cow thing - Oliver Hazard Perry, the hero of Lake Erie: [http://www.galafilm.com/1812/e/people/perry.html](http://www.galafilm.com/1812/e/people/perry.html) > [@](#): > > Commodore Perry was tall and well-proportioned; “every inch a man” according to some who knew him. He was also capable of inspiring tremendous loyalty in those who served under him. He had one strange phobia however, he was terrified of cows. He was said to prefer slogging miles through knee-deep mud rather than face a cow. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/25 "2001-08-22T00:46:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The other portions of the Trust Territory opted for independence, with defense compacts with the US. These are the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and the Federated States of Micronesia (comprised mostly of the Caroline Islands). However, the compacts are “compacts of free association” with the US. Sounds suspiciously like the Puerto Rican translation of commonwealth, “estado libre asociado.” Don’t forget [Palau](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ps.html). > [@](#): > > We didn’t have to _buy_ half of Mexico because we stole half of Mexico fair and square. Hey, we [paid 'em 15 million bucks](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/guadhida.htm#art12) after we stole half their country. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/26 "2001-08-22T00:46:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dqa \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > > **I believe the last significant territory…** > > I see that Colibri beat me to it. If I can’t beat him on speed, maybe I can try for depth. > > Don’t know what you consider “significant.” The Northern Mariana Islands were taken over by the US during WW2, became part of the UN Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (administered by the US) after the war, and became a commonwealth (like Puerto Rico) in 1976. > > The other portions of the Trust Territory opted for independence, with defense compacts with the US. These are the Republic of the Marshall Islands, and the Federated States of Micronesia (comprised mostly of the Caroline Islands). However, the compacts are “compacts of free association” with the US. Sounds suspiciously like the Puerto Rican translation of commonwealth, “estado libre asociado.” \*\* I only knew for sure the status of the Virgin Islands and I was too lazy to look up the exact status of the various Pacific island groups. Gee I wonder how much we paid Japan for the Marianas in 1944? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/27 "2001-08-22T01:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\* Gee I wonder how much we paid Japan for the Marianas in 1944? 😉 \*\* [/QUOTE] Almost 5,000 marines and sailors killed, plus 2,400+ wounded. That’s more than twice as many U.S. troops as were killed in fighting in the whole Mexican War (although a lot more died of disease). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/28 "2001-08-22T01:31:51Z")
Thank you, **friedo** for pointing out that wee detail about my home’s chances of getting in. Just so we’re clear, admission of a state is an act of _Congress_ (simple majority both Houses) and normally preceeded by a petition from the concerned jurisdiction (though history shows it’s not always quite formal nor is the petitioning entity always exactly a legitimately constituted representative body – e.g. West Virginia), and unless there is some perceived important strategic need for it, Congress takes its sweet time getting around to it (e.g. Hawaii was voting by 85 and 90% for statehood since BEFORE Pearl Harbor and it still took 'til '59; Alaska was stuck as a territory for 91 years but only when it was realized that _it was our border with the Soviet Union_ did things get speeded up). And the last 2 times a local straw-poll vote was taken statehood was stuck at 46.5% . **dqa** , you’re right on the relative status of the former TTPI – Puerto Rico’s “Commonwealth” = “Estado Libre Asociado” translation was essentially nothing more than political sleigh-of-tongue for consumption of wary voters and wary Congressmen back in 1952 – the result of having to call it **something** and trying to make it mean as little as possible. Having called it either “state” or “republic” would have badly squicked important factions with the implication of impending actual statehood or actual independence. The concept of a ‘Compact of Free Association’ was not recognized by the UN until the early 60’s; OTOH the US had already used “commonwealth” to refer to the neither-here-nor-there status of the Phillipines after 1936. **wishbone** , if your parents heard in childhood speculation on Phillipine statehood, either it was before 1930 or it was indeed just speculation; there was no serious talk of it after around 1930 – except as a reaction to “losing” them to Japan. They weren’t even given actual US citizenship during the time of US rule, and the 1936 establishment of the commonwealth was understood to be transitional to independence. Anyway, the major “overseas” territorial acquisitions (leaving aside some godforsaken Cays that the US somehow decreed to “be ours” just because, like Navassa) were Alaska, 1867; Phillipines/Guam/Hawaii/Puerto Rico, 1898 (Phillipines let go 1946); Am. Samoa 1900; Panama Canal Zone 1903, dissolved c. 1980; USVI 1917; NMI de-facto 1944, de-jure 1976. Of the remaining American Empire, only the Samoans are not legally US citizens; and Puerto Rico alone accounts for nearly 90% of the insular-possessions population and land surface. Oh, and after losing Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Guam militarily, Spain was given a $20 million settlement to renounce in the peace traty any possible future claims or rights of any kind. It’s one of those things that comes with negotiated cease-fires. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/29 "2001-08-22T01:54:36Z")
Just as an aside, the U.S. _could_ have taken the Marianas, Palau, the Marshalls and Carolines in 1898 at the end of the Spanish-American War, but opted to “high-grade” Spain’s colonial empire and only take the Philippines and Guam (plus Puerto Rico). Without those two valuable properties, Spain decided the rest weren’t worth having, and sold them to Germany in 1899. Japan swiped them from Germany in WWI, only to be divested in turn by the U.S. So those islands had four different colonial overlords in less than 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/30 "2001-08-22T02:06:38Z")
I suspect a lot of the reason that the USA hasn’t formally claimed more land is a) it would have been a propaganda coup for the Other Side during the Cold War, and 2) it turned out to be a lot easier and more profitable to _economically_ dominate vassal states, while allowing them to keep the trappings of independence. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/31 "2001-08-22T02:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > > \*\*why don’t we buy half of Mexico or something? \*\* > > We didn’t have to _buy_ half of Mexico because we stole half of Mexico fair and square. \*\* We didn’t steal it. Spoils of war, my friend. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/32 "2001-08-22T02:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*I have been wondering that. I mean why don’t we buy half of Mexico or something? Or heck just invade Canada and take it.(this was a Canandian Bacon joke) > > Anyway how come we decided to stop with 50 states even number or something? \*\* Also one of the things any President would have, or could have seen in the early early 1900s was that most colonies required lots and LOTS of money to maintain, control and keep a lid on. And most of those that were doing it did it with and incredibly level of barbarity. And since the thing we wanted was money, it was much easier just to bully them into unfair trade treaties and make loads of money that way. That’s exactly what we did with China, and Japan. Which is what we did and probably right around then zoomed past the British Empire to become the largest economy in the world. Something of which we have yet to relenquish. I can’t give proof on this but I believe that the UK was actually losing money on India. And I believe many other countries were also losing money on their colonies. They tried to keep them mainly for pride and international one-up-manship. **Colibri** didn’t we also take Cuba? But only held it for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/33 "2001-08-22T02:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jinxie \* > **Colibri** didn’t we also take Cuba? But only held it for awhile. \*\* Well, we occupied Cuba, but since the whole excuse for the Spanish American War was to assist the Cuban rebels fighting for independence liberate it from its dastardly colonial overlords, it would have looked really bad to hang on to it. U.S. troops left in 1902, giving Cuba full independence. The Philippines was not so lucky. Many Filipinos also thought that the U.S. was about to liberate them as well, and were bitterly disappointed to find they had just traded one colonial master for another. Ironically, the U.S. had to fight a brutal 6-year war to put down the uprising that broke out. We assisted the Cubans in their war of liberation, only to find ourselves on the other side of a war of liberation in the Philippines. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/34 "2001-08-22T02:44:38Z")
I had thought that part of the Monroe Doctrine was the concept of the prevention of re-colonisation by Spain (ie. the reinvigoration of imperialism by European powers in the US sphere of influence). I’m a bit surprised to learn about the Philippines, as it seems to me that the US government was doing exactly what it was trying to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/35 "2001-08-22T02:52:46Z")
To coincide with the 1893 World’s Fair, the Chicago Tribune commissioned 100 famous Americans to predict the coming century. (These essays were reprinted by the Chicago Historical Society in 1893 – a book which sadly is now out of print.) A number of the writers predicted the US in 1993 would comprise about 60 states, covering all or most of Latin America. Didn’t happen. But folks BELIEVED in Manifest Destiny back then. Failure to make the Philippines a state was due, in no small part, to racism. Many people were vehemently opposed to grantin citizenship to “those brown people.” Mark Twain pointed out the irony – the US considered the Philippines good enough to be our vassals, but not good enough to be our equals – and argued early on for granting them independence. (Of course, the racists were equally opposed to the notion that “those brown people” could be capable of self-government.) I believe Taft, before he becme President, held some official position in the Philippines (governor?), and saw the futility of trying to run a colony on the other side of the planet, back in the days of steam travel. The Philippines were a major drain on the Spanish economy. They were fairly glad to get rid of them. – Beruang ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/36 "2001-08-22T03:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > We didn’t steal it. Spoils of war, my friend. Now _there_ is a distinction without a difference–particularly since we started the war in the first place in order to steal the South third of Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/37 "2001-08-22T03:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beruang \* > \*\*I believe Taft, before he becme President, held some official position in the Philippines (governor?), and saw the futility of trying to run a colony on the other side of the planet, back in the days of steam travel. > \*\* See [this site](http://www.csubak.edu/~gsantos/cat21.html) for a picture of Philippine Governer Taft seated on a water buffalo, among other images. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/38 "2001-08-22T03:15:42Z")
Whoa! there, podnah! That there war was started over Californiay, thank ya very much! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alzarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@Alzarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alzarian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/39 "2001-08-22T03:44:04Z")
A better question may be, why not sell some of our land off, especially in these difficult times? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420/40 "2001-08-22T03:50:50Z")
I have visions of Quebec expansionsism by cheque book… Actually, I think I read in the Economist a few years back that if Quebec became its own country, there would be an argument that the east coast Anglophone provinces of Canada would join the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-america-stopped-trying-to-acquire-more-land-after-alaska-and-hawaii/77420.md?page=3)