# How come conservatives are against abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063 "2014-05-09T16:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/221 "2014-05-12T13:05:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am definitely aware of that. One person has “needs”. The other loses his/her life. When weighing the two, I go against the “needs”. So the second question, then, is are you aware that half the nation and much of the civilized world completely disagrees with your definition of what a “person” is? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and it’s not “wrong” – it’s simply an opinion that you hold, just as I hold a different one. And I can certainly respect your right to hold that opinion. If that’s all there is here, then I don’t know what we’re arguing about. But what also exists among many who hold such an opinion – perhaps not yourself, but many – is the presumption of some awesome prerogative to impose that opinion and that value judgment on an entire nation by force, with direct and potentially grave consequences for many. Whoever holds such a view would need to explain where that awesome prerogative to intrude so brazenly into someone’s intimate personal life could possibly come from. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/222 "2014-05-12T13:09:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am definitely aware of that. One person has “needs”. The other loses his/her life. When weighing the two, I go against the “needs”. [I can’t shake the feeling that this post sounds familiar…](http://www.upworthy.com/a-dude-trying-to-ban-abortions-is-asked-a-question-he-never-considered-its-so-obvious-it-hurts-8) Downplaying the needs of what we know is a real, living, breathing, viable human being in favor of the needs of a sack of cells which may or may not make it to the third trimester is downright barbaric. This philosophic position that a fetus is a living human with all the same rights as the rest of us is not supported by good argumentation, and believing it leads to some very, _very_ unfortunate consequences. Also, [“needs”](http://gawker.com/5960436/woman-in-ireland-dies-after-being-denied-abortion-was-told-this-is-a-catholic-country). :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/223 "2014-05-12T13:11:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > - _Delaying legal recognition of individual personhood until the moment of birth._ You seem to be blaming conservatives and anti-abortionists for resistance to granting legal status to pre-born individuals (your phrase). Do you really believe that liberals and pro-abortionists would support such legislation, and that only conservatives are preventing this from happening? If you do believe that, please provide a cite for some liberal proposing the grant of legal status to pre-born individuals, and show that it was opposed by anti-abortion groups of any stature. Thanks in advance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/224 "2014-05-12T13:11:57Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > So, who else has a responsibility to sacrifice their “needs” to ensure someone else can live? If you submit a blood sample for routine test and it was tested for compatibility with a kidney recipient by accident, should you be compelled by law to give them a kidney because it’s just your “needs” but their life? When you’re the one solely responsible for someone else’s life and your “needs” are weighed against that someone’s dying. Quibble all you want, but that’s a unique situation and you won’t find another similar one. The only time abortion should be allowed is when it is life against life. When it is convenience against life, it is clear which should take precedence. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/225 "2014-05-12T13:13:19Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Whoever holds such a view would need to explain where that awesome prerogative to intrude so brazenly into someone’s intimate personal life could possibly come from. Because it is not “intimate personal life” when you’re killing another human being. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/226 "2014-05-12T13:20:02Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > You can’t even bring yourself to write that she has needs without the quotes. That shows how much you are “aware”. > > So, who else has a responsibility to sacrifice their “needs” to ensure someone else can live? If you submit a blood sample for routine test and it was tested for compatibility with a kidney recipient by accident, should you be compelled by law to give them a kidney because it’s just your “needs” but their life? Ditto for the O negative blood owner? How about if your employee’s child has cancer and is uninsurable elsewhere (pre ACA days), but you want to fire this employee? Should your “needs” for profit, by law, take a back-seat to this child’s life? A dead person doesn’t even “need” their body in any meaningful way of the word, so we should force the harvest of organs and tissues? That will save many, many lives. Your comparisons are good right up until you bring up mandatory organ donation. There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that, because nobody is sacrificing anything but there is a great gain. Nobody has the need to keep organs after they’re dead. But the need to have two working kidneys? The need to keep one’s own blood? The need to finish high school, continue working, and not bankrupt oneself dealing with an incredibly expensive mistake you’re absolutely not prepared to deal with? Totally incomparable. Just to provide some emphasis on that last point, let me give an example. A while back, a friend of mine got knocked up by her idiot boyfriend. She was 15 at the time. She asked me for advice, and I told her one thing: get an abortion. She balked at the suggestion and had the kid, instead. Virtually every single problem in her life moving forward stemmed from this decision. Call him a little bundle of joy as much as you want, but _it ruined her life_. It ruined her relationship with her parents, it decimated her grades (she was never a great student but now she’s struggling to pass, and it would be even worse if the school wasn’t one of the few schools good enough to offer resources to help students with that kind of problem), it forced her into a life-long relationship with a boy who turned out to be an abusive rapist… It was not her only mistake, but almost every problem she has now, you can trace back to when she decided not to have an abortion. I find it hard to believe that that’s even a particularly negative story compared to others who became unplanned teenage mothers. “Needs”. Yeah. Gotta have those scare quotes - after all, it’s not like raising a child is a _massive fucking responsibility with a massive cost of both time and energy_. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/227 "2014-05-12T13:22:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [I can’t shake the feeling that this post sounds familiar…](http://www.upworthy.com/a-dude-trying-to-ban-abortions-is-asked-a-question-he-never-considered-its-so-obvious-it-hurts-8) Wow, just wow. I sort of knew this to be possible, but to actually hear someone trying to ban abortion answer “why would a woman want an abortion?” with “… I’ve never really thought about it”. Wow. I think we can answer the question in the OP with “in some cases, a simple lack of empathy towards women”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/228 "2014-05-12T13:22:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “Needs”. Yeah. Gotta have those scare quotes - after all, it’s not like raising a child is a _massive fucking responsibility with a massive cost of both time and energy_. I know. Better kill the kid. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/229 "2014-05-12T13:24:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When you’re the one solely responsible for someone else’s life and your “needs” are weighed against that someone’s dying. Quibble all you want, but that’s a unique situation and you won’t find another similar one. The only time abortion should be allowed is when it is life against life. When it is convenience against life, it is clear which should take precedence. So why does it matter that you’re “solely responsible”? Would the situation change if there were numerous donors? If you could transplant that fetus to anyone else’s womb, would you change your mind, and decide that abortion is okay? Look, in all cases, we have a clear situation - one “person” needs a host body to live; the other person (no scare quotes this time, because this one is _without any reasonable doubt_ a person) has a right to not grant that host body. It’s really that simple. It would only matter that you’re personally responsible if you _intended_ for it to be that way. And I sincerely wonder how many planned pregnancies are terminated. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/230 "2014-05-12T13:25:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because it is not “intimate personal life” when you’re killing another human being. Decisions about one’s own body are _always_ “intimate personal life”. If you want someone or something out of you, you have the right to expel it, at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/231 "2014-05-12T13:26:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know. Better kill the kid. Yes. Get rid of that cluster of cells with few defining characteristics that has a pretty good chance of being miscarried anyways, and go on with your life. You can always make another. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/232 "2014-05-12T13:31:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If you could transplant that fetus to anyone else’s womb, would you change your mind, and decide that abortion is okay? If you could transplant it, it wouldn’t be abortion. > [@](#): > > Look, in all cases, we have a clear situation - one “person” needs a host body to live; the other person (no scare quotes this time, because this one is _without any reasonable doubt_ a person) has a right to not grant that host body. It’s really that simple. Wrong. What happened is that person has already granted the other person her body. Now she is withdrawing the “grant” and killing the other person. It’s really that simple. If you would like an analogy (as invalid as the analogies you provided, but hey - an analogy) - let’s say a hospital has someone on life support. But the hospital has “needs” and doesn’t want to continue. So it withdraws the life support. Kills the person. All cool and peachy, right? After all - “needs”! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/233 "2014-05-12T13:32:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Decisions about one’s own body are _always_ “intimate personal life”. As I said, they stop being “intimate” and “personal” when they kill someone else. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/234 "2014-05-12T13:35:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As I said, they stop being “intimate” and “personal” when they kill someone else. Not if that someone is inside your body, and you want them out. That’s _always_ personal. I recognize that opinions may differ, but on this issue, mine is at least as strong and implacable as yours. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/235 "2014-05-12T13:37:02Z")
Since we’re not likely to come to agreement on this issue, why don’t we try and continue to reduce the teen pregnancy rate, using the methods that have been working (and have also reduced the abortion rate) for the past few decades? We should be able to agree on that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/236 "2014-05-12T13:37:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wrong. What happened is that person has already granted the other person her body. Now she is withdrawing the “grant” and killing the other person. It’s really that simple. “Granted”. Do you even know what the term “unplanned” means? There is no explicit or implicit agreement involved in a pregnancy that is not planned. “You had sex, therefore it is your responsibility” is _not a convincing argument when the success rates of modern contraceptives is so damn high_. A woman on the pill who forces her partner to use a condom by no means “grants” a fetus a lease to her body. She’s doing everything in her power to _prevent_ that fetus from entering her body to begin with! > [@](#): > > If you would like an analogy (as invalid as the analogies you provided, but hey - an analogy) - let’s say a hospital has someone on life support. But the hospital has “needs” and doesn’t want to continue. So it withdraws the life support. Kills the person. All cool and peachy, right? After all - “needs”! Well, what “needs” does it have? I’d say that’s kind of a distinction that matters, no? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/237 "2014-05-12T13:38:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not if that someone is inside your body, and you want them out. That’s _always_ personal. Even in the case of rape - tell the police after you kill your rapist that it is an “intimate personal” matter and they should not brazenly intrude in it. I’d like to hear their response. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/238 "2014-05-12T13:40:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Even in the case of rape - tell the police after you kill your rapist that it is an “intimate personal” matter and they should not brazenly intrude in it. I’d like to hear their response. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here at all. If you’re saying that a woman killing her rapist is equivalent to a woman expelling a fetus that she wants out of her, then you’re supporting my argument. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/239 "2014-05-12T13:41:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Even in the case of rape - tell the police after you kill your rapist that it is an “intimate personal” matter and they should not brazenly intrude in it. I’d like to hear their response. Yay, let’s totally abuse what “inside your body” means and make an obvious equivocation fallacy! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/240 "2014-05-12T13:42:03Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “Granted”. Yes, “granted”. > [@](#): > > Well, what “needs” does it have? I’d say that’s kind of a distinction that matters, no? Really? That’s a distinction? Can you point to me whether there is a distinction made in abortion law as to what “needs” prompt the abortion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=13)