# How come conservatives are against abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063 "2014-05-09T16:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/281 "2014-05-12T15:44:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Where did you get the idea that I, for example, think that “every fertilized egg is a baby”? Life begins at conception. Fertilized eggs are conceived, having unique DNA. So, it’s as much of a baby as an embryo or fetus. > [@](#): > > When the egg has implanted, and **without intervention** will eventually be born - yes, it’s a baby. What? Life begins at conception, but it becomes a baby at implementation? How is it any different? Am I a different person if I move into a new house? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/282 "2014-05-12T15:53:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Doctor - yes. Mother - no. Too easy to lie, because of some other “needs”. With arguments like these, pro-choice talking points write themselves. “ **Terr** says women cannot be trusted to tell the truth about their bodies and medical needs. Call **Terr** and tell him women have rights too.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/283 "2014-05-12T15:55:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > and we see pro-abortion folks saying _ **no one can tell a woman what she can do with her body!!!** _ while at the same time putting limits on exactly when abortions are no longer allowed. Many of us believe there should not be any such limits. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/284 "2014-05-12T16:01:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With arguments like these, pro-choice talking points write themselves. > > “ **Terr** says women cannot be trusted to tell the truth about their bodies and medical needs. Call **Terr** and tell him women have rights too.” Utter bullshit. Do women have a “right” to get drugs without a doctor’s prescription? After all, they should “be trusted to tell the truth about their bodies and medical needs”. Yes, if you restrict something by medical criteria, then you need a medical professional to make the determination. Not the patient. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/285 "2014-05-12T16:07:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Many of us believe there should not be any such limits. Yeah, and many conservatives think there should not be an exception for rape/incest, so I guess that does’t really change anything. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/286 "2014-05-12T16:08:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Utter bullshit. Do women have a “right” to get drugs without a doctor’s prescription? After all, they should “be trusted to tell the truth about their bodies and medical needs”. > > Yes, if you restrict something by medical criteria, then you need a medical professional to make the determination. Not the patient. Women have the right to ask their doctor for a drug without government intervention. If the doctor won’t prescribe it, she has the right to ask a different doctor. The same goes for any medical procedure – if she thinks it is medically necessary, she has the right to ask for a doctor to do it. I absolutely agree with the statement “if you restrict something by medical criteria, then you need a medical professional to make the determination. Not the patient.” So why do you want the government involved? Women and their doctors should be making decisions about their bodies. Not the government. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/287 "2014-05-12T16:09:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The point of time at which, without intervention or someone preventing it from happening on purpose, there will be a baby born (barring some natural event) is the point. Isn’t that true before implantation? I mean, the fertilized egg is going to implant and develop in to a baby unless it’s prevented from doing so (or some natural accident occurs), right? I’m by no means an expert in this field, so correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/288 "2014-05-12T16:09:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No she didn’t. And it is still human life and it still should not be snuffed out. So it’s all about the personhood, then, because apparently your “she granted permission” argument doesn’t matter at all with respect to your views on abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/289 "2014-05-12T16:10:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Women have the right to ask their doctor for a drug without government intervention. If the doctor won’t prescribe it, she has the right to ask a different doctor. The same goes for any medical procedure – if she thinks it is medically necessary, she has the right to ask for a doctor to do it. > > I absolutely agree with the statement “if you restrict something by medical criteria, then you need a medical professional to make the determination. Not the patient.” So why do you want the government involved? Women and their doctors should be making decisions about their bodies. Not the government. We were talking about the context of determining when there is a danger to mother’s life in order to allow an abortion. You think that the mother should determine this. That, of course, would make such criteria meaningless - but then that’s your goal. No, it would be by determination of a medical professional, and that medical professional would have to stand behind the determination if it was ever criticized or reviewed. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/290 "2014-05-12T16:12:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Isn’t that true before implantation? I mean, the **fertilized egg is going to implant** and develop in to a baby unless it’s prevented from doing so (or some natural accident occurs), right? I’m by no means an expert in this field, so correct me if I’m wrong. Not if the fertilized egg is in a test tube. Which is the context in which I posted. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/291 "2014-05-12T16:14:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Someone upthread tried to give a faulty analogy that a bunch of lumber is not a house. That’s correct, a bunch of lumber is not a house. But if you have some kind of self-assembling automaton sitting there with a bunch of lumber, pipes, glass, and other materials, and if you leave it alone it will build a house within months, then yes - that’s a house. And if you destroy it it is equivalent to destroying a house. So women = self-assembling automaton. No feelings, no health, no life. Just putting fetus parts together on auto-pilot. I must be imagining it when I deal with the aftermath of childbirth every day in the bathroom, 2+ years later (look up rectocele if you’re not eating). Like I said above, if you don’t think of the woman as worthy of any consideration, then of course abortion is abhorent. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/292 "2014-05-12T16:15:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > We were talking about the context of determining when there is a danger to mother’s life in order to allow an abortion. You think that the mother should determine this. I think the mother **and her doctor** should determine this. > [@](#): > > That, of course, would make such criteria meaningless - but then that’s your goal. My goal is to get the government out of limiting what decisions women (and their doctors) can make about their bodies. > [@](#): > > No, it would be by determination of a medical professional, and that medical professional would have to stand behind the determination if it was ever criticized or reviewed. It’s my understanding that this is already the case with pretty much every big medical decision. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/293 "2014-05-12T16:16:39Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > So women = self-assembling automaton. No feelings, no health, no life. Just putting fetus parts together on auto-pilot. I must be imagining it when I deal with the aftermath of childbirth every day in the bathroom, 2+ years later (look up rectocele if you’re not eating). Like I said above, if you don’t think of the woman as worthy of any consideration, then of course abortion is abhorent. I guess the concept of an analogy is lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/294 "2014-05-12T16:26:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the mother **and her doctor** should determine this. The doctor, after examining the mother, should determine this. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/295 "2014-05-12T16:34:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess the concept of an analogy is lost on you. If you view the woman as analogous to a lifeless automaton (and it’s clear that you do), then the humanity of the woman is lost on you. What if the pile of wood requires slave labor to turn into a house? What if the automaton emits toxic gases that have a chance of injuring someone else? You have set up every scenario to discount the woman in every way. I would agree with you if fetuses grew in robo-wombs, if all they require to be born is non disturbance. But they don’t. They require tremendous investment from the woman to be born. I’m going to change the answer to the OP to “in some cases, simple misogyny”, as you have clearly demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/296 "2014-05-12T16:42:51Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > If you view the woman as analogous to a lifeless automaton (and it’s clear that you do), then the humanity of the woman is lost on you. I have two kids. I have watched the two pregnancies up close and personal for the whole duration. I know the inconveniences and the negatives associated with them. I still do not think those inconveniences and negatives justify snuffing out a human life. Not unless it threatens the life of the mother. YM obviously V. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/297 "2014-05-12T16:48:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have two kids. I have watched the two pregnancies up close and personal for the whole duration. I know the inconveniences and the negatives associated with them. I still do not think those inconveniences and negatives justify snuffing out a human life. Not unless it threatens the life of the mother. YM obviously V. Too bad. Easy for you to say since you’ll never sacrifice anything of your body to bring a person to life, isn’t it? If your child should need blood/tissue/organs, do you think you should, by law, be compelled to donate to them? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/298 "2014-05-12T16:50:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not if the fertilized egg is in a test tube. Which is the context in which I posted. OK. But how is that different from, say, pulling the tubes from someone on dialysis? And by “that”, I mean destroying an embryo (or egg or blastocyst) in a test tube. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/299 "2014-05-12T16:52:01Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > If your child should need blood/tissue/organs, do you think you should, by law, be compelled to donate to them? 1. I will definitely donate it. 2. No, there cannot be compulsion. 3. If I already donated the organ, I cannot take it back. 4. The two situations are not even remotely analogous. 5. See my analogy above with the remote cabin. Not one of you pro-abortion people yet answered the question. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/300 "2014-05-12T17:06:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK. But how is that different from, say, pulling the tubes from someone on dialysis? And by “that”, I mean destroying an embryo (or egg or blastocyst) in a test tube. Because someone on dialysis is already a human being. An embryo (or egg or blastocyst) in a test tube yet isn’t. Not until it is implanted and is in a situation where, without intervention or someone preventing it from happening on purpose, there will be a baby born (barring some natural event). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=16)