# How come conservatives are against abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063 "2014-05-09T16:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/321 "2014-05-12T23:08:15Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > So women = self-assembling automaton. No feelings, no health, no life. Just putting fetus parts together on auto-pilot. No, not the woman, her reproductive organs. As much as a man claim that his penis has a mind of its own, reproductive organs thoughtlessly do their thing. In women’s case, ours either assembles a baby or sloughs off the uterine lining without any need for mental or emotional input from the person whose body they’re in. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/322 "2014-05-12T23:23:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So far as a fetus may be concerned, the only option other than staying in the womb is death. > > I find it quizzical that everyone in this thread is advocating for legal, capricious murder of men by women. I’m not saying that the man is unwilling or even fighting against the woman or her desire (and in no way would the example make sense in the current discussion if that were the case). But I’ll make it explicit, just to be sure that I haven’t been transported to an alternate universe: > > The man is fully willing and happy to oblige. He is not trying to stay where he is. He will cooperate with the woman’s desires to the full extent that he is capable. The issue is purely that even trying his most earnestly to comply, he either can’t meet the deadline or would have to die in the trying. I have to say, and I mean this in a nice way … that is the single most ridiculous, inapt, strained and ineffective analogy I’ve ever heard anywhere. I hope your personal romantic entanglements are substantially less ignominious than the example you concocted. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/323 "2014-05-12T23:23:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **I’m not necessarily onboard with a deadline** , but if he doesn’t get out in a reasonable amount of time, then she absolutely has the right to use force to expel him, up to and including deadly force. A “reasonable amount of time” might vary based on the circumstances, but it’s probably anywhere from 10 or 20 seconds to a minute or two. For young, healthy people, it’s probably on the lower end of that scale. (Bolding added) Reasonable times have nothing to do with the question, since it has no relevance to abortion. You’re answering a question that wasn’t asked. The arbitrary deadline is the key to the issue. As you say, it’s difficult to get onboard if it’s an arbitrary deadline that holds no relation to the physical realities of the situation. He might not have heard her the first time. He might be caught up in the blankets and needs some time to get free. Allowing her complete freedom to choose an arbitrary time limit, completely independent of his will, when she was perfectly complicit and conseting in creating the situation, and then saying that she can shoot his brains out if he fails to meet her time limit, is ludicrous. It’s straight up murder. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/324 "2014-05-12T23:36:29Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > I have to say, and I mean this in a nice way … that is the single most ridiculous, inapt, strained and ineffective analogy I’ve ever heard anywhere. That it’s ridiculous was the point. The analogy was made in credulity at **iiandyiiii** ’s reason for being pro-choice, which is stupid. Abortion is acceptible because egg-goo isn’t a human. Saying that it’s acceptible because women have any excusable power of force if their will isn’t complied with when it comes to their uteris, is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/325 "2014-05-12T23:46:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > (Bolding added) > Reasonable times have nothing to do with the question, since it has no relevance to abortion. You’re answering a question that wasn’t asked. The arbitrary deadline is the key to the issue. As you say, it’s difficult to get onboard if it’s an arbitrary deadline that holds no relation to the physical realities of the situation. He might not have heard her the first time. He might be caught up in the blankets and needs some time to get free. Allowing her complete freedom to choose an arbitrary time limit, completely independent of his will, when she was perfectly complicit and conseting in creating the situation, and then saying that she can shoot his brains out if he fails to meet her time limit, is ludicrous. It’s straight up murder. The appropriate deadline would depend on the circumstances, so I can’t answer it based on an arbitrary number. That’s one of the reasons we have a legal system – judge and jury would decide if she gave him a reasonable amount of time. I don’t believe the deadline has anything to do with abortion, because a fetus is incapable of leaving on its own. In either case, I believe a woman absolutely has the right to use force to expel something or someone from her body that she does not want inside her, even if she previously invited them in. Consent can be withdrawn. Obviously a woman can use deadly force to stop a rapist. How do you answer your own question? When do you believe a woman can legally and morally use deadly force to expel someone from being inside her, after telling him, even if she previously granted consent? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/326 "2014-05-12T23:49:54Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Saying that it’s acceptible because women have any excusable power of force if their will isn’t complied with when it comes to their uteris, is stupid. Why? It’s perfectly consistent. And it’s not “any excusable power of force” – as **BrightSunshine** points out, she has the right to use the least harmful method available to end the non-consensual violation of her body. I don’t have a problem with the “embryos are goo” argument, I just don’t believe it’s necessary, nor comprehensive. I also trust women to make the right choices about their bodies, and I’m not worried about a rash of fake-rape-murders or late-term-abortions if women are actually able to legally exercise the rights. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/327 "2014-05-13T01:13:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > What a bizarre argument. First of all the entire premise of the anti-abortionists is that an unborn fetus is a “person” – not a “potential person” but an actual one – we keep hearing this from you over and over again. If so, then there’s no practical difference between a fertilized egg at the moment of conception and any other gestational state, because the complete DNA makeup has been established. If one is going to buy the “without intervention or someone preventing it from happening on purpose” line of thinking, then the “baby” exists from the moment of fertilization, before implantation – because after all, in the natural scheme of things implantation happens spontaneously. Keep up. We were talking about fertilized eggs in test tubes. From a test tube, there is no “natural scheme of things” that results in implantation. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/328 "2014-05-13T01:28:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Abortion is acceptible because egg-goo isn’t a human. Saying that it’s acceptible because women have any excusable power of force if their will isn’t complied with when it comes to their uteris, is stupid. I didn’t say that the woman has any excusable power of force. I said she has the right to remove it with the least harm done possible. In the case of the sex act, direct killing is not allowed if pushing or hitting works. If she yells stop, tries to push him away, hits him, and he still refuses and she then grabs a knife and stabs him, I think she is justified in doing so. If he dies, this falls under justifiable homicide, which includes killing to resist rape, and continuing intercourse after consent is withdrawn is rape. (Of course, she’ll have to prove she said stop and used reasonable means to remove him first, so for simplicity assume all this is caught on tape or there are witnesses.) The failure of the fetus to survive on its own does not make the removal any more forceful or the removal actual killing. Likewise, if upon being pushed away the man dies of a heart attack directly resulting from being expelled, she is in no way responsible for his death. An embryo or a fetus is of course human. It’s not yet legally a person, and scientifically the chance of it getting born is about 60% at 9 weeks and 70% at 12 weeks. So it is at least a potential human person. I don’t think the “egg-goo” language is productive. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/329 "2014-05-13T01:30:41Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > I think it can be a dick move (depending on whether and how much housing the person may be harmful to you) but it’s currently not illegal. You’re wrong about it being not illegal. It falls squarely under “negligent homicide” and could be argued to a higher crime - probably second degree murder - since there would be willful/depraved indifference to human life. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/330 "2014-05-13T02:00:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Keep up. We were talking about fertilized eggs in test tubes. From a test tube, there is no “natural scheme of things” that results in implantation. I’m keeping up just fine, thanks. Read the next sentence after where you cut off the quote: “What difference should it make to “personhood” whether a fertilized egg or embryo is in a test tube or in a woman’s body?” Follow along with me here. The “murder” of a “person” is the entire crux of the anti-abortion argument. A fertilized egg – or its intermediate stages on the way to implantation – is either a person or it isn’t. You can’t have it both ways. If you claim it is, then the fertilized egg in the test tube is a “person”. If you claim it isn’t, then you’re contradicting the biological facts on which the anti-abortion argument is based, because the fertilization of the egg is the point at which the genetic signature of the future baby is established: its gender, the color of its eyes, the shape of its future little nose, and all its genetic physical and mental characteristics, maybe even whether it will be more interested in sports or in music when it grows up, if those things are genetic. Whether this egg, zygote, or blastocyst is inside a woman’s body or in a test tube doesn’t change any of that. “Intervention” has nothing to do with it. By your previously stated logic – that a “human being” is defined not by a blob of goop but by what that blob of goob will become – anyone cleaning out such a test tube instead of immediately implanting its contents in the uterus of the nearest available female is a murderer. One assumes it should even be done by force, if necessary! Think about it. If it sounds ridiculous, that’s because the whole “pro-life” argument has been ridiculous and irrational from the start. That’s why courts around the world are rejecting it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/331 "2014-05-13T02:11:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m keeping up just fine, thanks. Read the next sentence after where you cut off the quote: > > “What difference should it make to “personhood” whether a fertilized egg or embryo is in a test tube or in a woman’s body?” I repeat. " From a test tube, there is no “natural scheme of things” that results in implantation and, eventually, birth". > [@](#): > > By your previously stated logic – that a “human being” is defined not by a blob of goop but by what that blob of goob will become Naturally become. Without further intervention. If you think I stated what you said, quote me. You’re assigning some point of view that I don’t hold to me, then arguing against it. Doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/332 "2014-05-13T02:15:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > . . . “What difference should it make to “personhood” whether a fertilized egg or embryo is in a test tube or in a woman’s body?” > > . . . The “murder” of a “person” is the entire crux of the anti-abortion argument. A fertilized egg – or its intermediate stages on the way to implantation – is either a person or it isn’t. You can’t have it both ways. If you claim it is, then the fertilized egg in the test tube is a “person”. . . . I thought that the pro-life side pretty much always claimed that in vitro fertilization did produce a “person.” That’s one of the reasons they don’t like the process, as it usually ends up producing more fertilized eggs than are actually implanted. The remainder are discarded, and they consider that to be a form of abortion. (You may remember the “snowflake babies” label being used in these cases.) Most pro-life people don’t want it both ways; they hold every fertilized egg to be a person. (I’m pro-choice, FWIW; just trying for clarification.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/333 "2014-05-13T05:58:38Z")
[Why conservatives are against abortion.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2626149/Holding-dear-life-Mother-tells-miracle-daughters-milestones-10-weeks-born-legal-abortion-threshold.html) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/334 "2014-05-13T08:51:24Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > The failure of the fetus to survive on its own does not make the removal any more forceful or the removal actual killing. Likewise, if upon being pushed away the man dies of a heart attack directly resulting from being expelled, she is in no way responsible for his death. Tripe. People survive being pushed all the time, to the extent that we can consider pushing to be ridiculously unlikely to be lethal. Foeti have the inconvenient habit of invariably dying shortly after being yanked out of the uterus. "O noes, all I wanted was the foetus out of my body! What a tragedy that the poor thing subsequently died! :vapors: ". Ensuring that it isn’t born alive is much more than half the point of a typical abortion, I’d venture to guess. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/335 "2014-05-13T11:45:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Why conservatives are against abortion.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2626149/Holding-dear-life-Mother-tells-miracle-daughters-milestones-10-weeks-born-legal-abortion-threshold.html) I don’t buy it. I think the primary reason that conservative citizens are against abortion is because they don’t like the idea of people having sex and “getting away with it”, as witnessed by their long-dormant opposition to contraception rearing its ugly head recently. The primary reason that conservative politicians are against abortion is because they see it as an easy way to milk votes from the population. Just as gun enthusiasts will vote 100% on the issue of guns, anti abortion zealots will vote 100% on the issue of abortion. When people on one side of a debate are willing to cast their votes solely on that single issue, politicians with no scruples will trip over themselves to pander to them. Back to the linked example- this particular child has cost society tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’d have a bit more sympathy for anti-abortion voters if they were not equally eager to spend society’s money on food and housing for the poor. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/336 "2014-05-13T12:24:45Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Tripe. People survive being pushed all the time, to the extent that we can consider pushing to be ridiculously unlikely to be lethal. Foeti have the inconvenient habit of invariably dying shortly after being yanked out of the uterus. "O noes, all I wanted was the foetus out of my body! What a tragedy that the poor thing subsequently died! :vapors: ". Ensuring that it isn’t born alive is much more than half the point of a typical abortion, I’d venture to guess. This is irrelevant to the point, which is that women have the right to expel anyone or anything that is in their bodies that they want out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/337 "2014-05-13T13:04:30Z")
**How come conservatives are against abortion?** I’m going to go way out on a limb here and say that the major reasons many conservatives oppose abortion are: a) religious teachings, b) personal conviction that human beings are created at conception and must be preserved at all or almost all costs. Other views also apply (i.e. the feeling that the threat of pregnancy acts as a brake on licentiousness/lust and that abortion feeds immoral behavior), concerns about birth rates or supply of adoptable infants declining etc. Defense of personal freedoms is a great rallying cry until you personally disapprove of the outcome of said freedoms, a dilemma (or not) for both the Right and Left. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/338 "2014-05-13T13:18:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t buy it. I think the primary reason that conservative citizens are against abortion is because they don’t like the idea of people having sex and “getting away with it”, as witnessed by their long-dormant opposition to contraception rearing its ugly head recently. > > The primary reason that conservative politicians are against abortion is because they see it as an easy way to milk votes from the population. Just as gun enthusiasts will vote 100% on the issue of guns, anti abortion zealots will vote 100% on the issue of abortion. When people on one side of a debate are willing to cast their votes solely on that single issue, politicians with no scruples will trip over themselves to pander to them. > > Back to the linked example- this particular child has cost society tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’d have a bit more sympathy for anti-abortion voters if they were not equally eager to spend society’s money on food and housing for the poor. This is the most accurate, if not the most concise, answer to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/339 "2014-05-13T13:32:53Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > No, not the woman, her reproductive organs. As much as a man claim that his penis has a mind of its own, reproductive organs thoughtlessly do their thing. In women’s case, ours either assembles a baby or sloughs off the uterine lining without any need for mental or emotional input from the person whose body they’re in. For centuries, men claimed it was the woman’s fault she was raped: She was wearing tight jeans and I couldn’t resist. And rapists were getting away with that excuse: She deserved it. There’s a good analogy to pregnancy there: She had sex, so she deserves an unwanted pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/340 "2014-05-13T13:43:25Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > This is the most accurate, if not the most concise, answer to the OP. The first part is no better than **Der Trihs** ’ nonsense, and the second applies as much to liberal politicians as to anyone else. And the third part is incoherent - why would he be more sympathetic if they were not eager to spend money on the poor? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=18)