# How come conservatives are against abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063 "2014-05-09T16:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/421 "2014-05-14T15:52:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am saying pregnancy isn’t. As in “right word some women would apply to their pregnancy – others might use ‘violation’, ‘blessing’, ‘danger’, ‘catastrophe’, or a myriad of other terms.” I mentioned ‘violation’ again because you did in this statement: > [@](#): > > The right to life can be trumped by another person’s right to life. It cannot be trumped by inconvenience, violation, catastrophe, etc. However you want to call it. I thought you were talking about your ethics and morality in general, not just with regards to abortion. If I was mistaken, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/422 "2014-05-14T15:56:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The argument re the woman’s bodily autonomy is a red herring. It’s not about the woman’s body and never has been; it’s about the body inside hers that she helped create. That body has its own brain, its own nervous system, and for all we know its own consciousness and ability to feel pain. It is not the mother’s body and should be accorded the same rights and privileges it would be accorded were it to suddenly find itself on the other side of her abdominal wall. My argument is absolutely about the mother’s body. It’s not a red herring just because you don’t like it, or disagree with it. I absolutely believe that an individual’s right to expel anyone or anything from inside them if they want it out trumps the rights of anyone inside their body, whether it’s a rapist, a parasite, a fetus, or a tiny violinist. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/423 "2014-05-14T15:59:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I mentioned ‘violation’ again because you did in this statement: And I copied the words in that statement from yours. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/424 "2014-05-14T16:00:09Z")
Anti abortion people typically have strong religious beliefs. How then do they reconcile that with the fact that there is no consensus among religious organizations that abortion is bad? From [this site, here are some pro-choice religious organizations:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist1.htm) > [@](#): > > American Baptist Churches-USA, > American Ethical Union, > American Friends (Quaker) Service Committee, > American Jewish Committee, > American Jewish Congress, > Central Conference of American Rabbis, > Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), > Council of Jewish Federations, > Episcopal Church (USA), > Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot, > Moravian Church in America-Northern Province, > Na’Amat USA, > National Council of Jewish Women, > Presbyterian Church (USA), > Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, > Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, > Union of American Hebrew Congregations, > Unitarian Universalist Association, > United Church of Christ, > United Methodist Church, > United Synagogue for Conservative Judaism One would think that if something were as heinous as the anti-abortion people claim that there would be near-unanimity among the religious. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/425 "2014-05-14T16:01:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My argument is absolutely about the mother’s body. It’s not a red herring just because you don’t like it, or disagree with it. I absolutely believe that an individual’s right to expel anyone or anything from inside them if they want it out trumps the rights of anyone inside their body, whether it’s a rapist, a parasite, a fetus, or a tiny violinist. Of course you believe that. We wouldn’t be having this discussion otherwise. The key point is that you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_Moose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Docta\_Moose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_Moose)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/426 "2014-05-14T16:03:03Z")
Not just conservitives are pro life im as liberal as they come and im pro life because i believe life starts at fertilization if you dont want kids use birth control a condom or some other contraceptive or get sterilized if you get it done right and the right kind of sterilization done it wont be permanent so if you change your mind its all dandy ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/427 "2014-05-14T16:03:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Anti abortion people typically have strong religious beliefs. How then do they reconcile that with the fact that there is no consensus among religious organizations that abortion is bad? From [this site, here are some pro-choice religious organizations:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist1.htm) You do understand that just because an organization has the word “Jewish” in its name that doesn’t mean that it is a “religious organization”, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/428 "2014-05-14T16:05:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You do understand that just because an organization has the word “Jewish” in its name that doesn’t mean that it is a “religious organization”, right? I would say that it is an acknowledgment that their members have the Jewish faith. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/429 "2014-05-14T16:13:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course you believe that. We wouldn’t be having this discussion otherwise. I’m glad you take back your silly ‘red herring’ accusation. > [@](#): > > The key point is that you’re wrong. No u ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/430 "2014-05-14T16:14:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I would say that it is an acknowledgment that their members have the Jewish faith. No. You can be a Jew and an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/431 "2014-05-14T16:15:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And I copied the words in that statement from yours. Then I apologize for my misreading of your statement – I thought you were talking about your ethics and morality in general (as I was), not just with regards to abortion. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/432 "2014-05-14T16:16:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. You can be a Jew and an atheist. True enough, it can be used as an ethnic group as well as a religious group. Even putting aside the Jewish groups, one must admit that there is not anything approaching unanimity among Christians that abortion is evil. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/433 "2014-05-14T16:17:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. You can be a Jew and an atheist. You can also be a practicing Jew and pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/434 "2014-05-14T16:19:15Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > True enough, it can be used as an ethnic group as well as a religious group. Even putting aside the Jewish groups, one must admit that there is not anything approaching unanimity among Christians that abortion is evil. Don’t really care about Christian attitude toward abortion, since I am not one, and have never been. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/435 "2014-05-14T16:21:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I would say that it is an acknowledgment that their members have the Jewish faith. There is not even agreement among Jews as to what is necessary to correctly practice Judaism. Nor is there agreement among Christians as to what is necessary to practice Christianity. So, no, I don’t think that the failure to achieve unanimity on the issue of abortion is particularly meaningful. If Christians cannot agree on the relationship of faith and works to salvation, you cannot claim that Christians are unified in agreement on important concepts. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/436 "2014-05-14T16:21:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Don’t really care about Christian attitude toward abortion, since I am not one, and have never been. Perhaps not, but many and dare I say most of the anti-abortion movement are indeed religious and use their Christianity as their moral compass. Since there is no consensus either among the religious or the non-religious, what are the grounds for staking out your position as the more moral one? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/437 "2014-05-14T16:22:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m glad you take back your silly ‘red herring’ accusation. It isn’t a red herring at all, and I haven’t taken it back. Pro-abortionists for decades have been indignantly asserting that no one has a right to tell a woman what to do with her own body. My assertion is that the baby has a right to its own autonomy, especially since it’s the innocent party in the situation. You might note that more and more, women are getting grief for smoking, drinking, doing drugs, etc. while pregnant. This gives me hope that the day is dawning when people will finally grant unborn children the same rights and concerns it would enjoy if for some reason it suddenly found itself outside the woman’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/438 "2014-05-14T16:25:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps not, but many and dare I say most of the anti-abortion movement are indeed religious and use their Christianity as their moral compass. Since there is no consensus either among the religious or the non-religious, what are the grounds for staking out your position as the more moral one? Ethics. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/439 "2014-05-14T16:35:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ethics. Whose ethics should control the law and why? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063/440 "2014-05-14T16:37:13Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > A fertilized egg is unquestionably a human being. “Unquestionably”? To consider [this](http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Fertilized-human-egg.jpg) to be a human being is nothing short of an Orwellian redefinition of language that insults the meaning of what it is to be human. Most of us define humanness in terms of consciousness, awareness, intelligence, and experience. But to consider the non-sentient pictured item to be a human being while depriving an actual unquestionable human being of all her rights and relegating her to the status of a fetus incubator is, in my view, a reprehensible **affront** to humanity and basic human rights. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > That’s simply a matter of biology. you can choose to put the fertilized egg into a class of human beings that aren’t ‘persons’, and can be wantonly killed. That’s a moral decision, not a question of fact. I’d say, though, that you are keeping some unsavory company by so doing. “Unsavory company” being the Supreme Court and most of the industrialized world. Your implication would appear to be that “moral company”, judging from laws around the world, are most of the world’s underdeveloped primitive backwaters. Look at the map that was posted earlier. This is what I mean about “the wrong side of history”. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > One would think that if something were as heinous as the anti-abortion people claim that there would be near-unanimity among the religious. Yup. Plus what I just said. Yet the pro-life movement is highly correlated with a religious motivation, and when religious people start making laws without any rationally supportable substantiation simply because it reflects their faith, what you have is a theocracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-conservatives-are-against-abortion/688063.md?page=23)