# How come muslim funerals in the USA aren't burned on a pyre? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122 "2013-02-22T22:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/41 "2013-02-26T20:23:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > We as in main stream modern American culture. I thought that was pretty obvious by the context. I obviously was not talking about Vikings. > > Interesting article you linked. But it does say right up front that it is the only place in the entire country that has funeral pyres. The one exception does not invalidate the rest. The [1900 Galveston Storm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1900_Galveston_hurricane#Aftermath) remains the worst natural disaster in US history. Death estimates range from 6,000 to 12,000–8,000 is the most accepted figure. The dead were weighed down & buried at sea but they washed up on shore again. Finally, funeral pyres were used, with the body handlers supplied with liquor to help with the dreadful task. Most of them were African-American men who had little choice about taking the job… ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/42 "2013-02-26T20:39:42Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > On topic, I thought of another reason why pyres may not be allowed in the States; it happens sometimes (though not as often these days, I’m sure) that a widow is \*\*strongly \*\*encouraged to [join her dead husband on the pyre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29). This being suicide, it’s illegal in the States. Like Acsenray, I must also express sincere frustration and annoyance at this being perpetrated. This is not something that happens now. India has many problems to start with; please don’t pile more on top. And please give me a cite that suicide is illegal in the US? What are they going to do, arrest the deceased? Attempted suicide, maybe. Grrr. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Like allowing a familiy member (ideally the decedent’s eldest son for Hindus) to press the button that actually lights the fire/moves the body into the retort. Yes, this is indeed the case - they let my cousin do it for my mother (I, as a daughter cannot do it). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/43 "2013-02-26T21:30:54Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > On topic, I thought of another reason why pyres may not be allowed in the States; it happens sometimes (though not as often these days, I’m sure) that a widow is \*\*strongly \*\*encouraged to [join her dead husband on the pyre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29). This being suicide, it’s illegal in the States. Your own cite indicates that it’s illegal in India as well as the States. (And the Wikipedia article also makes it clear how rare it is.) ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/44 "2013-02-26T22:56:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Your own cite indicates that it’s illegal in India as well as the States. (And the Wikipedia article also makes it clear how rare it is.) Yes, that’s why I phrased my post as I did, rather than ‘Pyres can’t be allowed b/c Hindu widows are always forced to self-immolate and since suicide’s forbidden in the States pyres are forbidden.’ I didn’t say it was common. I know it’s rare. Just b/c we in this thread know it’s a now baseless stereotype doesn’t mean the US population in general and lawmakers in particular know that. As recently as 2002 I was taught it was common by a religion prof who lived for a year in an ashram and heard it from a FOAF. Yes, pardon me, ATTEMPTING suicide is illegal. And assisting suicide is legal in some states, illegal in others. Successfully committing suicide has its own punishment/reward, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/45 "2013-02-26T23:29:28Z")
Where does this religion professor teach? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/46 "2013-02-27T00:32:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Where does this religion professor teach? He taught at Oakland Community College in Michigan on the Farmington Campus; I understand he’s retired to enjoy life w/ the student he married on break the year after I had him for Religions. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/47 "2013-02-27T01:10:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Story told before: in Scotland we kept reading and hearing all these references to Auld Lang Syne; the few times we dared ask people would stare and repeat the name, and a couple of them apparently decided we were trying to pull their legs and took offence - how could we be asking, in all sincerity, “what is Auld Lang Syne?” Once I had a lightbulb moment and YouTubed it, we discovered it was “that song they always play in banquets in American movies”… I’m an American, and I, like I think most people, only know it as to be sung on New Year’s. I was surprised when I saw a Brit movie/TV scene where it was sung when congratulations were offered. Did I get that right? (About England–I think-- usage). BTW, I still don’t know the words mean. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/48 "2013-02-27T01:57:30Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And please give me a cite that suicide is illegal in the US? What are they going to do, arrest the deceased? Attempted suicide, maybe. My brother always used to say that if they caught you trying to off yourself, you would be sentenced to _life_. Thing you probably do not want to do is attend a Tibetan Sky Burial (look it up yourself, on an empty stomach). ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/49 "2013-02-27T02:42:10Z")
> [@For You](#): > > My brother always used to say that if they caught you trying to off yourself, you would be sentenced to _life_. > > Thing you probably do not want to do is attend a Tibetan Sky Burial (look it up yourself, on an empty stomach). The Zoroastrian funerals mentioned above are pretty much the same thing, but w/o the chopping. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/50 "2013-02-27T03:54:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I don’t consider it onerous to have to ask, but I have had too many experiences of people taking such questions badly Is that really your experience on this message board? I get the impression that we’re being subject to s chip on your shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/51 "2013-02-27T03:59:55Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Yes, that’s why I phrased my post as I did, rather than ‘Pyres can’t be allowed b/c Hindu widows are always forced to self-immolate and since suicide’s forbidden in the States pyres are forbidden.’ I didn’t say it was common. I know it’s rare. Just b/c we in this thread know it’s a now baseless stereotype doesn’t mean the US population in general and lawmakers in particular know that. It is not even remotely plausible to me that American public policy on cremation has anything to do with Hindus, who have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then. So you have any concrete reason to believe there’s any possibility that this is true? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/52 "2013-02-27T04:53:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It is not even remotely plausible to me that American public policy on cremation has anything to do with Hindus, who have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then. So you have any concrete reason to believe there’s any possibility that this is true? I posited a theory relating to the OP’s (corrected) question. You’re not a peer reviewing my work; if you don’t like it, move on. I assume you don’t mean to say Hindus in general ‘have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then’ in the US, correct? Did you mean Hindu funeral pyres? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/53 "2013-02-27T09:52:27Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I assume you don’t mean to say Hindus in general ‘have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then’ in the US, correct? Did you mean Hindu funeral pyres? It seems pretty evident to me that he does mean Hindus in general. Wikipedia says Hindus are 0.5 % of the population in the US, so it is also pretty evident that he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![listedmia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@listedmia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/listedmia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/54 "2013-02-27T10:27:58Z")
My WAG: Hindus in the USA tend to be concentrated in urban or suburban areas. Fire codes in these areas prevent having big funeral pyres in, say, someone’s backyard. There are not a lot of suitably open spaces available for this use, so it is easier for many Hindus to just use a regular crematorium. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/55 "2013-02-27T14:28:55Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > It seems pretty evident to me that he does mean Hindus in general. Wikipedia says Hindus are 0.5 % of the population in the US, so it is also pretty evident that he’s right. Maybe it’s b/c I grew up in the diverse area of Metropolitan Detroit, but I’ve known of Hindus my whole life; to say they’re a minority is one thing, but to say they’re ‘relatively unknown until very recently if then’ is a whole other thing. Hindus in America didn’t suddenly pop up into the national consciousness when people heard the name Bobby Jindal. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/56 "2013-02-27T14:55:54Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Maybe it’s b/c I grew up in the diverse area of Metropolitan Detroit, but I’ve known of Hindus my whole life; to say they’re a minority is one thing, but to say they’re ‘relatively unknown until very recently if then’ is a whole other thing. Hindus in America didn’t suddenly pop up into the national consciousness when people heard the name Bobby Jindal. They certainly popped up _long after_ institution of laws concerning burning bodies in the open. So far as I know, there has never been any public scandal, discussion, disagreement, whatever regarding Hindus wanting to have open funeral pyres and governments suppressing that desire. Look beyond your own lifetime. It was only during the Johnson administration that large numbers of Indians were able to migrate to the United States. And it was only during the tech boom of the 1990s that cultural awareness of Indians started growing beyond doctors, engineers, and professors. I can’t recall any public dispute during that time regarding Hindu funeral practices within the borders of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/57 "2013-02-27T15:51:33Z")
The population of Hindus in the States have increased something like 50% in the 2000s. _After_ your professor gave his ignorant and erroneous report. And in my experience Americans still know very little about Hindu cultural practices. I wear an Om on my wrist; almost no one knows what it is or even recognizes it. I grew up in a predominantly Hindu community but they clustered together, and back in the 80s Hindus were new to the extent that the Dot Busters were big news, trying to get rid of these new people. You might think that you know Hindus, but your post about _suttee_, of all things, frankly shows that you do not. _Suttee_ is not something that was ever considered in the West when it came to burial rites; it’s not really even considered in the East, is what we are trying to tell you. Rather, Christians bury, Muslims bury, and Jews do too. The Abrahamic god dictated what rites would be considered “correct” and I think we just went from there. ETA: Here is the Straight Dope Report on [_suttee_](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2386/whats-up-with-those-indian-widows-who-commit-suttee). ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/58 "2013-02-27T16:30:56Z")
It seems like my posts are getting garbled by those responding angrily and defensively, as though they’re skimming them or reading more into them than I wrote or being obtuse. My college prof told a story he’d heard thirdhand; I didn’t say I or anyone in class believed it, simply that he related it. Suttee is something that was still being talked about. That doesn’t mean it still happens, it simply means it’s still talked about. His story has no effect on an increase or not in Hindu population and to extrapolate it to \*\*that \*\*extent is a real stretch and shows either lazy comprehension or deliberately obtuse misunderstanding. **I’ve made it clear I know it’s not still done. I did not say that it is.** To say I don’t know Hindus b/c I made a WAG about why funeral pyres may not be permitted in the States is ridiculous; shall I ring the Hindus I’m acquainted w/ and let them know that I don’t actually know them? I’ve never discussed suttee w/ them; frankly we rarely discuss religious topics. They’re people I’m friends with, not people I study. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/59 "2013-02-27T17:10:11Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > It seems like my posts are getting garbled by those responding angrily and defensively, as though they’re skimming them or reading more into them than I wrote or being obtuse. Sati is a touchy subjects for many Hindus - sort of like black lynchings for many white Americans. Death rites are important in all cultures. The Judeo-Christian emphasis was on the body and the Greek/Hindu emphasis was on the soul and hence the preservation of the body and the liberation of the soul respectively. Although not specifically instructed in the new testament, the Catholic church banned cremations in the late 1800s and i think they allowed it back in the 60’s. Romans practiced cremations before Christianity took over. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122/60 "2013-02-27T17:15:18Z")
Okay, just answer one question clearly then – What reasons are there to believe that state, local, or municipal governments in the United States created policy regarding the cremation of bodies on the basis that they were afraid that Hindus might force widows to jump in the pyre? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-muslim-funerals-in-the-usa-arent-burned-on-a-pyre/651122.md?page=2)