# How come my teacher's never told me about this simple chord relationship on the guitar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2019, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541 "2019-08-12T08:19:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/21 "2019-08-13T22:26:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My hand isn’t big enough to move the C, G, and D shapes out of the open position. So am I just screwed? With the D shape, one can play it as a moveable normal chord, with one string per finger, rather than using a barre with the first finger across all of the strings. It’s better for finger-picking than strumming, as if one accidentally hit the sixth string, one would be playing a note outside the chord. The D shape also lacks the bass notes, so it’s not as full a sound as the others. The C shape can be derived from an A shape. If one plays a D minor seventh chord in the A shape position, one will have an unused little finger/pinky: (5)- **5** -7-5-6-5 (root note of chord in bold) = D minor 7th One can then place that finger three frets higher on the fifth fret to create a C shape barre chord: (5)- **8** -7-5-6-5. = F major The G shape across six strings is hardest to play, although the three string truncated version is easy: x-x-(5)- **5** -5-8 = C major ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/22 "2019-08-14T00:09:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My hand isn’t big enough to move the C, G, and D shapes out of the open position. So am I just screwed? You can do partial chords for these, instead of holding a whole barre down. I think most rock rthm players are doing this. You are avoiding or muting any higher or lower strings that aren’t part of it and just getting 3 or 4 notes that you need. You won’t see many people making those barres fully. But with the E and A barre you are solid. They are the basic ones. ETA and re the above post: You have to reckon with the fact that chords need to have a tonic bass note to be a full major chord. The bass note in a D chord is the D string. Without it it would be an inversion. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/23 "2019-08-14T00:14:59Z")
Cool. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/24 "2019-08-14T07:41:10Z")
I am pretty sure they teach this the same day they cover apostrophes. Maybe you were sick that day? ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/25 "2019-08-14T09:56:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Weird. When playing bars, I find relationships much easier to see on a guitar than a piano. (If not playing bar chords, all bets are off.) Definitely. Say you play C on a piano, and then want to move to the major third. That’s the second white key above. Fine. Do the same thing with C# and now the major third is the _third_ white key above 😕. Move to D and it’s now the second _black_ key above :smack:. On a guitar : find the root you want and you’ll invariably find the major third four frets higher on the same string, no matter what key you’re in. And it’s like this for all intervals and the same with scales and chords. On a piano C Major, C# Major and D Major have completely different shapes. On a guitar, just find the root and use the same shape for all major scales and chords ---
**Author:** ![shayanjj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@shayanjj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shayanjj)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/26 "2020-01-20T20:58:00Z")
It took me forever to get a hang of barre chords because of this same reason. it was so mystical until I realized a[F barre chord](https://www.solfej.io/chords/f) is the same damn thing as a [F# barre chord](https://www.solfej.io/chords/f-sharp) just a fret higher ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/27 "2020-01-20T21:27:41Z")
> [@digs](#): > > So glad I started out taking piano lessons, where the relationships between notes and chords is so much more obvious. Need a seventh, hmmm, 8 full steps in an octave, oh, look, it’s literally one full step down from the octave. > > I feel for the OP. Relationships are harder to “see” on the guitar. You really do have to memorize a lot of scales and notes. Tell me to hit a C above high C on a piano? _::PLUNK!::_ On a guitar? Let’s see, when I play a C chord, the B string becomes a C when I put my finger _here,_ so 8 steps up from \*that… \*hmm, this’ll take a while… I learned a guitar first and a piano second, and I hold the exact opposite opinion. On a piano, you say “hit a high C” and I have to find a pirate and a ship. More like I have to say “OK, C, that’s the left, no right, white key next to the set of two black keys, so there’s middle C, so one over from there…” On a guitar, you don’t need to even tell me the name of the note, and I don’t need to ever figure it out. If you say “Go an octave up from here,” I go two strings down and two frets up, which is basically a diagonal line. Want another octave? another two strings and two\* frets. Sharp, flat, doesn’t matter, always the same. And if I feel like it, I can just go up one string and 7 frets, or no strings and 12 frets (which is easy cuz 12 is specially marked). Pianos are a confusing mess of keys of different sizes and colors. On a guitar, everything’s the same, even, and constant.\* \*okay, the B string is weird, but you get the point, and bass guitars don’t even have one. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/28 "2020-01-20T21:38:34Z")
I was taught a quick scale and how to form a power chord. From there I learned that a power chord was a fifth and what that meant. After that I learned modes, so I’d know _where_ to put my fingers _when_. And now, after close to 30 years with a guitar, I make a heckuva racket. I can’t hardly play any chords. I’m not sure I can play lead, even. But I do make a heckuva racket. ---
**Author:** ![jerez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c68b51/32.png) [@jerez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerez)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/29 "2020-01-20T21:58:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I was taught a quick scale and how to form a power chord… I came in to say this (power chord). If you like Rush, and even if you don’t, try playing along with 2112, practically the whole album or any part of it. It’s surprising how much of it is just “power chords” and sometimes the open strings. Of course, you’ll want to learn where all the notes of the chord are, but you can do a lot with just three bass strings. Even if you’re playing a classical guitar (wide neck), anyone’s hands are big enough. You just have to use your fretting hand the right way and spend a few years working at it. ---
**Author:** ![jerez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c68b51/32.png) [@jerez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerez)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/30 "2020-01-20T22:17:43Z")
Speaking of Rush, and in case someone hasn’t seen [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWCVIb_ku_Y) recreation in the studio of 2112. I say recreation because it looks like they’re actually playing it, but I thought I heard another guitar during the solo. Anyway, I’m posting again to say that power chords run throughout 70s rock, so you have a lot of examples to choose from. Robin Trower’s “Day of the Eagle” is one that surprised me early on. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/31 "2020-01-21T13:56:50Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Hmm, that was probably in the first ten things taught to me as a bass player. … I think this is one of those things that bassists “get” much sooner than guitar players. As bassists we play roots, 5s, and octaves right from the beginning, and the others all come in soon after. While guitarists are memorizing chord shapes, we are memorizing patterns. …and those patterns are so much easier to memorize on the bass since all of the strings are the same interval apart, so the pattern is reinforced by being valid no matter where played. In 20 years of playing guitar, I never did have a solid grasp of the whole fretboard. As a bass player, it somehow seemed much easier (for me) to internalize the fretboard from end to end, and not just because there are only 4 strings. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/32 "2020-01-21T14:36:22Z")
When I started teaching myself guitar, the tonic/dominant chord relationship you describe was completely intuitive to me. I had already learned music theory after years on the piano. Guitar chords held no mystery. Your teacher ought to have explained that principle. It seems very basic to understanding the guitar. That “A shape” barre chord is harder to do major, but the minor chords of that shape I think are the easiest barre chords of all. The note positions fit comfortably under the fingers. You didn’t mention the third barre chord shape—I suppose you might call it the “C shape.” It has the median (3rd note of the scale) in the root position, and can only be done major. It doesn’t mesh with the other two shapes because it’s outside that tonic-dominant relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/33 "2020-01-21T15:04:25Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I think this is one of those things that bassists “get” much sooner than guitar players. > > As bassists we play roots, 5s, and octaves right from the beginning, and the others all come in soon after. While guitarists are memorizing chord shapes, we are memorizing patterns. > > … Yeah, I didn’t really understand what the OP was saying about barre chords, but when my roommate taught me bass guitar in college, the FIRST thing he taught me was a G major scale, and the SECOND was I/IV/V. Said I could move the major scale and I/IV/V anywhere on the neck and play 90% of rock and blues songs. Fast forward 40 years, and I play mostly bluegrass and old time on upright. I remember a year or so ago when our fiddler started learning the guitar. One day she came in all excited to tell us about this “new thing” called I/IV/V. 😃 So cute! Every once in a while I see books and such describing the concept of “Nashville numbering.” As a bass player, it shocks me that that isn’t the 1st or 2d thing someone learned after the names of their strings. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/34 "2020-01-21T15:16:49Z")
The Bass strings are consistent. From lowest to highest EBDG, the intervals from string to next string are all a perfect fourth. This means that patterns move across the strings as well as up and down the frets. The guitar is inconsistent. That B string is a major third from the G string. While patterns can be moved up and down the frets, they cannot be moved across the strings if the B string is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/35 "2020-01-21T15:21:07Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Makes it a whole lot easier to play rapid blues changes, dunnit? Even easier if you don’t try to make your A shape with three fingers, but rather just barre those three strings with the pad of your pinky. Hmm, I’d always done that with the ring finger and it’s slightly uncomfortable. You’re right, it’s better with the pinky. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/36 "2020-01-21T15:30:19Z")
I took a music theory class, and I was the only one in the class who didn’t play an instrument. But it’s helped SO much, especially with guitar and piano. Never learned to read music, but I can sit down, experimant with those I IV V ii iv chords til it sounds right, and figure out a song. Or look “deep” by playing around with _Mystic Guitar Noodlings™…_ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/37 "2020-01-21T15:34:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “How come my **teacher’s** never told me about…” > > The response pretty much writes itself. 😃 > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I am pretty sure they teach this the same day they cover apostrophes. Maybe you were sick that day? I read it as “my teacher has never.” That is what you meant, **aceplace** , right? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/38 "2020-01-21T16:06:39Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Every once in a while I see books and such describing the concept of “Nashville numbering.” As a bass player, it shocks me that that isn’t the 1st or 2d thing someone learned after the names of their strings. It was for me, thank Og. When I first picked up a bass years later, it was just a lower-pitched guitar to me. I can’t figure out how people play guitar if they aren’t working patterns. It’s all patterns and variations, basically. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/39 "2020-01-21T16:19:04Z")
> [@shayanjj](#): > > It took me forever to get a hang of barre chords because of this same reason. it was so mystical until I realized a[F barre chord](https://www.solfej.io/chords/f) is the same damn thing as a [F# barre chord](https://www.solfej.io/chords/f-sharp) just a fret higher Unless I’m misreading, “a fret lower” would be the typical nomenclature. The F barre is a fret lower than or a fret down from the F# barre. I’ve always understood and heard the “lower frets” to be the ones closest the headstock, and the “higher frets” to be the ones closer the body/soundhole/bridge, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541/40 "2020-01-21T16:24:11Z")
My guitar teacher had 25 years experience but had never heard of Nashville tuning. Even really good people don’t know everything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-my-teachers-never-told-me-about-this-simple-chord-relationship-on-the-guitar/838541.md?page=3)