# How come no one talks about "consensual" domestic violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 5, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291 "2012-07-05T10:15:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/41 "2012-07-05T18:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Its not the USA and the cops now laugh over it and don’t even bother to respond usually. If it’s not the USA where is it? That doesn’t happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they’ve responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn’t want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly. Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don’t have much public ‘consensual’ violence. Which is why it’s such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand. So are you now implying that the situation you’ve witnessed with your wife’s cousin enables you to recognize ‘consensual’ violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really. I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA’s to report domestic violence when you see it! ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/42 "2012-07-05T19:17:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If it’s not the USA where is it? > > That doesn’t happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they’ve responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn’t want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly. > > Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don’t have much public ‘consensual’ violence. Which is why it’s such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand. > > So are you now implying that the situation you’ve witnessed with your wife’s cousin enables you to recognize ‘consensual’ violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really. > > I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA’s to report domestic violence when you see it! Trinidad, and I never said I can recognize it on sight with strangers. The problem I had with the PSAs was they seemed simplistic was all. Even with the harsher laws in the US I’ve seen plenty of similar couples there. I’m not taking any stand. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/43 "2012-07-05T19:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not taking any stand. Thank you! This explains everything. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/44 "2012-07-05T19:23:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > For some people it’s a dance they consensually indulge in again and again, for other people it’s an abusive shock. DianaG makes an important note that there is point where staying even after getting beaten or abused is a choice. > > The weird thing is that if you actually watch these dynamics unfold in some (certainly not all) cases the nominally abused person is quite deliberately trying to get rise out of the abuser even though the result is going to be highly unpleasant as if the drama and attention that will ensue are worth the explosion. It’s a weird and complex tango some people dance. I wouldn’t call either an “abuser” or “abused”. I’d just call them a pair of assholes who like beating the crap out of each other all the time. One just happens to be bigger. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/45 "2012-07-05T20:54:33Z")
That Duggard girl was friendly with, the man and wife who abducted her, when she was found. She was a child, abducted, beaten, raped, imprisoned, for years and years it was ongoing. Constant abuse and oppression will shape you into something unrecognizable. She was definitely dancing. That the abused knows the steps shouldn’t lead people to assume they are a willing participant, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/46 "2012-07-05T21:03:03Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If it’s not the USA where is it? > > That doesn’t happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they’ve responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn’t want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly. > > Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don’t have much public ‘consensual’ violence. Which is why it’s such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand. > > So are you now implying that the situation you’ve witnessed with your wife’s cousin enables you to recognize ‘consensual’ violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really. > > I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA’s to report domestic violence when you see it! Yeah I’m not getting it either. Are you saying because in every case one person is not 100% the meek victim then everyone should ignore them and let the violence continue? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/47 "2012-07-05T21:04:34Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The weird thing is that if you actually watch these dynamics unfold in some (certainly not all) cases \*\*the nominally abused person is quite deliberately trying to get rise out of the abuser \*\*even though the result is going to be highly unpleasant as if the drama and attention that will ensue are worth the explosion. It’s a weird and complex tango some people dance. Unfortunately I have seen this quite a few times. Often fueled by alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/48 "2012-07-05T21:21:10Z")
My wild ass guess: What she really meant to address was how simplistic the Anti Domestic Violence PSA’s are, when things like ‘consensual’ violence are actually more complicated. Which, of course, would have led to a very different discussion. I think what she is calling ‘consensual’ violence, is really serial domestic abuse. It’s not legal to beat on your spouse, even in Trinidad, I believe. Enforcement, of course, is a whole different kettle of fish, if there’s an actual culture of not even responding at times. But this kind of cultural change doesn’t happen over night. PSA’s are simplistic because the people they are targeting, with the message are simplistic. At it’s core though, enforcement has little opportunity, to make the required change in attitude, if they can’t get people to report. Ultimately, if you want to see things change, you have to start somewhere. Beginnings, by their very nature, tend to be simplistic. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/49 "2012-07-05T21:34:18Z")
What **elbows** has said, but this too: > [@Loach](#): > > Unfortunately I have seen this quite a few times. Often fueled by alcohol. I know a woman who was the physically-abusive one, and she and her husband were also alcoholics (with her also abusing other drugs, dunno about him). They would get into screaming arguments, often with him egging her on, and then she’d get physically violent. They each blamed the other for “starting it,” and when told they had to start working on their relationship by getting rid of the alcohol in the house, would claim the other one would not allow getting rid of the booze. They stayed together for years before finally getting a divorce. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/50 "2012-07-05T23:36:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > It isn’t that easy. I wish it was, and I used to think this way, but I found out otherwise. It really kinda is. You’re not with that woman anymore, right? So at some point you stopped consenting to be her punching bag. Good on you. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/51 "2012-07-05T23:44:28Z")
**DianaG** , how does your convenient little homily address the instances brought up earlier where abusive spouses/partners quite often beat their partners into such states (emotional/mental states, I mean) that they’re too afraid to leave? They’ve been raped and beaten, and probably their lives (and their loved ones’ lives, possibly children) threatened if they attempt to leave. And you still think just because they didn’t leave they’re “consenting” to this treatment? That’s a fucking scary sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/52 "2012-07-05T23:58:41Z")
> [@grude](#): > > wailing on each other. Nitpick: “Wail” is a cry of anguish. Beating on a person or metaphorically a guitar solo is “whaling.” I know usage has made things muddy but that’s why they call it a nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/53 "2012-07-06T00:56:49Z")
> [@choie](#): > > **DianaG** , how does your convenient little homily address the instances brought up earlier where abusive spouses/partners quite often beat their partners into such states (emotional/mental states, I mean) that they’re too afraid to leave? They’ve been raped and beaten, and probably their lives (and their loved ones’ lives, possibly children) threatened if they attempt to leave. And you still think just because they didn’t leave they’re “consenting” to this treatment? > > That’s a fucking scary sentiment. Full on terrorizing, rape and death threats may happen in certain situations, but the scenario DianaG mentions is far, far more common in everday life where people decide that leaving a relationship with occasional bouts of violence is less desirable than staying. Obviously this position can change over time. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/54 "2012-07-06T01:01:42Z")
> [@choie](#): > > **DianaG** , how does your convenient little homily address the instances brought up earlier where abusive spouses/partners quite often beat their partners into such states (emotional/mental states, I mean) that they’re too afraid to leave? They’ve been raped and beaten, and probably their lives (and their loved ones’ lives, possibly children) threatened if they attempt to leave. And you still think just because they didn’t leave they’re “consenting” to this treatment? > > That’s a fucking scary sentiment. I believe that I already said that there are some extraordinary circumstances that I believe make it difficult for a small percentage of people to leave an abusive relationship. But the thing is… no one gets raped and beaten and has their family’s lives threatened on the first date. One way to avoid getting into the state you describe is by getting the fuck out of there the \*first \*time someone hits you. If you don’t you are consenting to be abused. I’m sorry that hurts your feelings, but it’s true. But you know what’s a really scary sentiment? Being more concerned with abused peoples’ feelings than their safety. I’m not interested in being a shoulder to cry on, I’m the foot that’s going to kick some sense into you, and I’m not about to apologize for that. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/55 "2012-07-06T01:12:49Z")
Missed the edit window, but I just want to say; it’s not that I don’t have any sympathy. But while sympathy is nice and a start, it doesn’t solve the problem. The problem is solved by leaving. Nothing gets any better until you do that, so _ **do that** _. And at the end of the day, most people need some hard truth and a good shove to change their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/56 "2012-07-06T01:34:46Z")
The number one reason women, don’t speak openly, of the violence they themselves have suffered, is because they don’t want to be judged by people like you. Chances are, every time you express this theory of yours, you are doing so before at least one women who has the actual life experience to know how full of shit it is. People all think they have an iron will, “I’d fight to the death”. People generally believe such things right up until they have actually been, beaten into submission. They are never the same again. The next expression of real will, that first step to get out, is Herculean. I’m glad you don’t know from experience, what you’re talking about. I hope you never do. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/57 "2012-07-06T01:38:21Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > But the thing is… no one gets raped and beaten and has their family’s lives threatened on the first date. Well, exactly. So by the time you get hit, you’ve already invested a lot of time and emotion and possibly financial security into this relationship, and your abuser has also potentially had a lot of time to convince you of a lot of crazy-ass stuff, like that being hit is your fault and you probably deserved it. Or whatever. > [@](#): > > But you know what’s a really scary sentiment? Being more concerned with abused peoples’ feelings than their safety. I’m not interested in being a shoulder to cry on, I’m the foot that’s going to kick some sense into you, and I’m not about to apologize for that. Fair enough, but the idea that being victimized is somehow consensual isn’t sensible at all. And your advice to “just leave, duh,” is sort of like telling someone who’s trying to kick an addiction, “just quit smoking, duh.” Yes, some people can just quit cold turkey, and good for them. But a lot more people need some kind of help and assistance to quit, just as most abuse victims need help and assistance to get out of the abusive situation. Sure, if you’re talking to an individual person who’s in denial about their situation, saying, “You need to just get out of there because you’re being abused” could conceivably be helpful. I don’t logically follow how you can then make a blanket statement that abuse victims are consensually participating in their own abuse. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/58 "2012-07-06T01:45:32Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I’m glad you don’t know from experience, what you’re talking about. I hope you never do. I’m glad too, but that’s not exactly a random blessing, you know. I’ve never been in an abusive relationship because I’m not having that shit, not because no one thought it would be a fun thing to try. > [@MrsWhatsit](#): > > most abuse victims need help and assistance to get out of the abusive situation I’m all for help and assistance. Nonetheless, the answer IS “leave, duh.” All the warm fuzzy lack of judgement is nice, but again… it doesn’t solve the problem. The reasons people get into this situation may be complicated, but the solution isn’t. There’s only one. Do it, or you’re part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/59 "2012-07-06T01:54:23Z")
What about a woman worth ten of millions of dollars, with adoring fans who follow her every move, constantly telling her how lovely and talented she is, a social support network that 99.999% of us could only dream of. She gets viciously beaten by her boyfriend, and thousands of people send her messages of support and love when she announces she is dumping her abusive partner. A year later, they are back dating again; Will she, _should she_ be pitied when he savagely attacks her the next time? ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291/60 "2012-07-06T02:13:15Z")
**MPB in Salt Lake** I think that situation developed the way it did because some friend leaked the pictures of her battered face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-no-one-talks-about-consensual-domestic-violence/627291.md?page=4)