# How come the CIA can't make a robotic bird or flying insect with a camera? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512 "2013-03-21T02:38:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/1 "2013-03-21T02:38:35Z")
This question came to me when watching _Zero Dark Thirty_ and seeing what kind of trouble they had when wanting to peer in OBL’s windows. I can understand why there’s nothing you can buy at the mall or even from a specialty catalogue; but I would have thought when faced with a hugely important objective like this, they could throw a billion dollars at some engineers and come up with something. No, just not possible yet? Very surprising to me. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/2 "2013-03-21T02:44:36Z")
it’s coming - but there is an issue of range and portability - anything light enough to both fly and be that small is not something you’re going to throw in a soldier’s backpack and carry everywhere - you’d pretty much have to have a full-time person dedicated to packing, repairing (at the least, you are looking at small exotic batteries) and operating it and its receiver ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/3 "2013-03-21T02:48:27Z")
If they did have such a thing do you suppose you would know about it? ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/4 "2013-03-21T02:54:18Z")
we’re still fighting the Uncanny Valley in computer animation, attempting to do the same with mechanical parts is a different deposit of unobtanium. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/5 "2013-03-21T02:55:12Z")
**I Love Me:** Sure, I see that point; do you think then that in reality they got a nice close look at OBL and just fed the public all this stuff about having ambiguous satellite photos so they wouldn’t have to admit what kind of surveillance technology they actually used? ETA: **Shijinn** , they don’t have to make it look exactly right when holding still at close range. If a bird or bug flies by someone’s window, no one looks closely. I mean, fish have been getting fooled by “flies” for years. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/6 "2013-03-21T03:00:33Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > If they did have such a thing do you suppose you would know about it? Seconded! Just look at what kind of imagery you can get for _ **free** _ on the interwebz. Now imagine what the ‘guvmint’ can see! :eek: “Big Brother” _ **is** _ watching you! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/7 "2013-03-21T03:12:41Z")
[Here](http://www.ted.com/talks/a_robot_that_flies_like_a_bird.html)’s a TED Talk about a robotic bird. I doubt it can be used for surveillance but that’s probably not too far off. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/8 "2013-03-21T03:15:18Z")
> **[Robot hummingbird passes flight tests (w/ Video)](https://phys.org/news/2011-02-robot-hummingbird-flight-video.html)** > > (PhysOrg.com) -- A prototype robot spy "ornithopter," the Nano-Hummingbird, has successfully completed flight trials in California. Developed by the company AeroVironment Inc., the miniature spybot looks like a hummingbird complete with flapping... ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/9 "2013-03-21T03:18:06Z")
“Small”, “light”, and “mechanically complex” is really really hard to do. It’s orders of magnitude harder when you add “rugged”, “reliable”, and “easy to use”. Add “2 way –high bandwidth wireless communication”, “long range”, and “long endurance” and you’ve got one damn hell of an engineering problem. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/10 "2013-03-21T03:31:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > …ETA: **Shijinn** , they don’t have to make it look exactly right when holding still at close range. If a bird or bug flies by someone’s window, no one looks closely. I mean, fish have been getting fooled by “flies” for years. well personally, my eyes are drawn to movement. anything that flies will invite scrutiny. also, despite popular opinion, the average Joe is smarter than a fish; and anything from an odd flying pattern, sounds, posture, whatever, will scream odd. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/11 "2013-03-21T03:42:23Z")
Google “micro UAV” (Unmanned Air Vehicle). It’s been a huge interest of the government and research labs (or both) for some time now. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/12 "2013-03-21T03:45:34Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > “Small”, “light”, and “mechanically complex” is really really hard to do. > It’s orders of magnitude harder when you add “rugged”, “reliable”, and “easy to use”. > Add “2 way –high bandwidth wireless communication”, “long range”, and “long endurance” and you’ve got one damn hell of an engineering problem. This, plus there’s the camera. Getting a useful image in questionable and changing light out of something that could pass for a real critter is gonna be impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/13 "2013-03-21T04:07:05Z")
In regards to the OP, if the key issue you’re talking about is making a ‘flapping wing’ type micro-drone then that’ll be a while. Even though it’s said (truthfully) that helicopters are inherently unstable (compared to fixed wing aircraft) a robotic, reciprocating-wing flying mechanism would be a nightmare of complexity, power & stability. And other than the goal of eventually maybe being able to disguise it as a bird or bug there’s no advantage over smoothly spinning rotors. Nature, for all its achievements, really can’t evolve any kind of separate spinning ‘wheel’. [Here’s Cecil’s take on why…](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1151/why-has-no-animal-species-ever-evolved-wheels) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/14 "2013-03-21T05:12:03Z")
I knew I’d seen something about this recently in a magazine, here ya go > **[Rise Of The Robotic Bees](https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2012/02/26/147446679/robotic-bees-one-step-closer-to-reality)** > > Researchers at Harvard have come up with a novel manufacturing process for building robotic bees, finding inspiration from the worlds of pop-up books and origami. They hope that within two years their bees will be flying on their own, perhaps in... I don’t think it actually flies yet, and the video is more about the production method, but it’s still interesting. They’re talking about cheap mass production, so maybe a swarm of mobees randomly flitting about with POV camera eyes could feed enough data to a computer to cull out something of value. Probably not stealth, though. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/15 "2013-03-21T05:29:02Z")
Ok, that link is from a year ago, this one seems to be state of the art, still not flying, yet, even with an external power source. > **[These Little Robot Bees Could Pollinate the Fields of the Future](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/these-little-robot-bees-could-pollinate-the-fields-of-the-future-1824486/)** > > If the bees can't be saved, maybe these little robobees can assume their role ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/16 "2013-03-21T05:40:45Z")
Cool as hell granted, and possibly a significant step, but as cool as that is there’s no camera, flight control, guidance system, communication system, onboard power supply, etc… All of those things at their current level of technology most likely could not even be fitted on that frame much less carried aloft and controlled. This is a great example of what needs to be developed to realize the goal of the OP. Someone found a really great way to make a frame but we still don’t have all the stuff we need to bolt on to it in a small and light enough package to make it feasable. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/17 "2013-03-21T05:56:35Z")
Here’s a robotic dragonfly made by some people at GeorgiaTech with a grant from USAF, you can get one for $99 and it works: > **[Robot Dragonfly - Micro Aerial Vehicle](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/robot-dragonfly-micro-aerial-vehicle?website_name=robotdragonfly)** > > Palm-sized robot that can fly like a bird and hover like an insect | Check out 'Robot Dragonfly - Micro Aerial Vehicle' on Indiegogo. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/18 "2013-03-21T06:10:13Z")
Wow, what a schizoid thread. About half of you are saying it’s just a bridge too far with current technological ability even if you throw a billion dollars at it; then the other half are saying I’ll probably be able to buy one fairly cheap for my kids next Christmas! LOL ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/19 "2013-03-21T06:19:44Z")
Looks very cool! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512/20 "2013-03-21T06:30:22Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Wow, what a schizoid thread. About half of you are saying it’s just a bridge too far with current technological ability even if you throw a billion dollars at it; then the other half are saying I’ll probably be able to buy one fairly cheap for my kids next Christmas! LOL Well, think of it like people thought about cars 100 years ago. We did make advances in automobile technology but not in the way they’d expect. We will have _some kind_ of probes that look like birds and insects. But such probes that can be deployed in a military capacity in the way you imagine are way beyond the state of the art. Think flying cars. We already have something things that are kind of like cars but also fly. But we don’t have ubiquitous flying cars that get 30 miles a gallon, full wi-fi inside, looks like a regular car, goes 500 mph, and can be driven with minimal training. And throwing a billion dollars at _that_ problem won’t solve it, either. We’ll get further along but no amount of money solves basic physical limitations. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-come-the-cia-cant-make-a-robotic-bird-or-flying-insect-with-a-camera/653512.md?page=2)