# How common a name is "JonBenet" anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 22, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677 "2006-08-22T00:44:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/41 "2006-08-22T20:14:00Z")
I took high school French in New York State so I stand by it only shakily. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/42 "2006-08-22T20:16:21Z")
[QUOTE=severus] To my ear they are so close that I couldn’t distinguish them. Again, maybe it depends on the dialect used. Or maybe your ear has just more training than mine. [/quote] Or less. I’m not sure if I’m the only one, but I’ve noticed that I’m not always capable of recognizing two sounds as the same in different languages. There’s even been a couple times in learning a foreign language that I had to retrain myself to make a sound, even if it was present in another language I knew, because I wasn’t used to making it in the new context. I might be hearing wrongly on the basis of context as well. It might be all in my own head. > [@](#): > > I know for sure that this is not how these words are pronounced in _my_ dialect of French. I’d be curious to know if there are dialects of French where this is the usual pronounciation, which would explain how anglophones came into contact with it. Maybe, as **Excalibre** suggested, the Occitan-influenced dialects of Southern France do use this pronounciation. The French of Southern France doesn’t have the same distinction between mid-open and mid-close vowels. Unlike Standard French, but like Spanish and like Occitan, mid-open vowels are permitted only in closed syllables (syllables ending in consonants), and mid-close vowels are permitted only in open syllables. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/43 "2006-08-22T20:17:50Z")
OK, [here’s](http://www.askoxford.com/languages/fr/toi_french/pronunciation/) a French pronunciation guide with sound clips. Ă©, Ă©e, hĂ©, er, es, ez, et Ă©tĂ©, allĂ© sounds not quite -ay but definitely not “get”; does the clip sound right to you? Because it sounds very close to what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/44 "2006-08-22T20:24:01Z")
Yep, I definitely got something a little wonky because I would say Ă©tĂ© pretty much like maison ou frĂšre. I must refine myself! OK, so the past tense “jetĂ©â€; I would say the first e like the English “get” and the second one more like “ay”. Non? ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/45 "2006-08-22T20:35:40Z")
Whenever I’ve heard [this man’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Forget) name pronounced, it’s sounded like “Ghee For-ZHAY” to me. **Jodi** : Bookmark [this page](http://www.1728.com/altchar.htm) (compiled by our board’s own **wolf\_meister** ), and you’ll be able to correctly type _marchĂ©_ and other foreign words complete with accent marks, umlauts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/46 "2006-08-22T20:43:54Z")
“Et”, as in the conjunction is usually pronounced with a mid-close vowel (ay). Same thing for â€œĂ©tĂ©â€ and “allĂ©â€, as shown in your guide. “Et” in words such as “chalet”, “buffet” is usually (in my experience) pronounced with a mid-open vowel, same as the “ai” in “maison”. I believe the “ù” in “frĂšre” would be pronounced similarly by most speakers of French, but when _I_ say it, the sound is distinctly different. I believe it’s actually a diphthong. I know that one of the characteristics of Quebec French (my dialect) is the use of diphthongs that have disappeared in other dialects of French, so I guess that explains it. As for “jetĂ©â€, the second vowel is your “ay”, but the first is yet another one. I think it’s a [schwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa), but I will wait for **Excalibre** or another linguist to confirm or infirm. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/47 "2006-08-22T20:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] Any man who names his daughter after himself has serious boundary issues. [/QUOTE] Possibly. Although it is common in E. Indian culture to give the daughter an _alternate_ name based on a feminization of her father’s name. For example, my father’s name is Inder, and my alternate name is Indri. It’s a matter of legitimacy, I think. I think they only use it during times of weddings and funerals, though. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/48 "2006-08-22T21:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=severus] “Et”, as in the conjunction is usually pronounced with a mid-close vowel (ay). Same thing for â€œĂ©tĂ©â€ and “allĂ©â€, as shown in your guide. “Et” in words such as “chalet”, “buffet” is usually (in my experience) pronounced with a mid-open vowel, same as the “ai” in “maison”. I believe the “ù” in “frĂšre” would be pronounced similarly by most speakers of French, but when _I_ say it, the sound is distinctly different. I believe it’s actually a diphthong. I know that one of the characteristics of Quebec French (my dialect) is the use of diphthongs that have disappeared in other dialects of French, so I guess that explains it. As for “jetĂ©â€, the second vowel is your “ay”, but the first is yet another one. I think it’s a [schwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa), but I will wait for **Excalibre** or another linguist to confirm or infirm. [/QUOTE] Mmm . . . see, I don’t speak French very well. I’ve never noticed different vowels in “chalet” and â€œĂ©tĂ©â€. It’s possible I’ve been pronouncing it wrong for all these years. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/49 "2006-08-22T21:24:11Z")
What I want to know is how many newborn girls have been given the name in the past 10 years? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/50 "2006-08-22T21:30:53Z")
[QUOTE=stuyguy] What I want to know is how many newborn girls have been given the name in the past 10 years? [/QUOTE] Well, according to the SSA it wasn’t in the top 1000. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/51 "2006-08-22T21:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=severus] “Et”, as in the conjunction is usually pronounced with a mid-close vowel (ay). Same thing for â€œĂ©tĂ©â€ and “allĂ©â€, as shown in your guide. “Et” in words such as “chalet”, “buffet” is usually (in my experience) pronounced with a mid-open vowel, same as the “ai” in “maison”. I believe the “ù” in “frĂšre” would be pronounced similarly by most speakers of French, but when _I_ say it, the sound is distinctly different. I believe it’s actually a diphthong. I know that one of the characteristics of Quebec French (my dialect) is the use of diphthongs that have disappeared in other dialects of French, so I guess that explains it. As for “jetĂ©â€, the second vowel is your “ay”, but the first is yet another one. I think it’s a [schwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa), but I will wait for **Excalibre** or another linguist to confirm or infirm. [/QUOTE] The first vowel sound in jetĂ© is indeed a schwa. In Parisian French, Ăš, -et, ĂȘ, -ait, -ais, -aie, -aix, -aye are all represented by /Δ/, which is the vowel sound in the English “get”. In the middle of a word, -ai is also pronounced /Δ/, like in “maire” or “maison”; at the end of a word, however, -ai is /e/ (the Ă© vowel). This allows francophones to differentiate between the future tense (je danserai) and the conditional tense (je parlerais). Also, in Parisian French these vowels remain pure–no diphthongs. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/52 "2006-08-22T21:51:58Z")
I forgot to emphasize the point severus made about “et” (the conjunction) being pronounced /e/. This is in contrast to “est” (the verb), which is pronounced /Δ/. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/53 "2006-08-22T21:56:43Z")
[QUOTE=AwSnappity] The first vowel sound in jetĂ© is indeed a schwa. In Parisian French, Ăš, -et, ĂȘ, -ait, -ais, -aie, -aix, -aye are all represented by /Δ/, which is the vowel sound in the English “get”. In the middle of a word, -ai is also pronounced /Δ/, like in “maire” or “maison”; at the end of a word, however, -ai is /e/ (the Ă© vowel). This allows francophones to differentiate between the future tense (je danserai) and the conditional tense (je parlerais). Also, in Parisian French these vowels remain pure–no diphthongs. [/QUOTE] Thank you for this, very informative. Somewhere in my Romance linguistics class, the prof said that the distinction between “je danserai” and “je danserais” doesn’t exist for most French speakers nowadays. At any rate, I’d like to note that when I say “get”, I have either a schwa or /I/. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/54 "2006-08-22T21:57:12Z")
and yet another data point: My friends John and Stacy named their son Johstan, a combination of both of their first names. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/55 "2006-08-22T21:59:17Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] and yet another data point: My friends John and Stacy named their son Johstan, a combination of both of their first names. [/QUOTE] Did you at least try to talk them out of it? ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/56 "2006-08-22T22:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Somewhere in my Romance linguistics class, the prof said that the distinction between “je danserai” and “je danserais” doesn’t exist for most French speakers nowadays. [/QUOTE] Hm, I haven’t heard this, but I don’t doubt that it’s true. Having not been in Paris for any substantial amount of time, I can’t say for sure. I’ll get back to you in February. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/57 "2006-08-22T22:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=h.sapiens] My own rather unique first name is a combination of my mother’s middle name and her mother’s first name, but spelled slightly differently. None of my three siblings has a “made up” name. Midwestern middle-European Catholic background. [/QUOTE] I have to admit, if my first name was “Homo”, I’d likely use my initial also. 😛 It is “rather unique” however, I’l admit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mlerose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@mlerose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlerose)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/58 "2006-08-22T22:20:16Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] and yet another data point: My friends John and Stacy named their son Johstan, a combination of both of their first names. [/QUOTE] I know a couple, Jonni (wife) and Terry (husband) who named their daughter JoTerra. Yes, JoTerra. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/59 "2006-08-22T22:25:01Z")
It’s been a while since I had to defend myself in French, but they only way I’ve heard of the famous thesaurus is [ro:∙ 3ai] (sorry, but the three is the only way I can make that IPA symbol.) Anyway, I think that (in the U.S.) when people make up names like “JonBennet” it’s either affectation or because they’re from a community that has had its original culture very much stripped away (such as African-Americans). However, I’ve noticed that people from Central America will very often have Biblical first names, and from Mexico more traditional Hispanic first names (except for those who name their daughters after soccer teams). But in Caribbean Colombia, it’s very common to take an Anglo first name and mutate it in some bizarre way. Ex: Janes, Lisset, Marlys, Katis, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677/60 "2006-08-22T22:42:12Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] It’s been a while since I had to defend myself in French, but they only way I’ve heard of the famous thesaurus is [ro:∙ 3ai] (sorry, but the three is the only way I can make that IPA symbol. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Roget’s is named after Dr. Peter Roget, an English physician. Since he lived in a country that is not primarily francophone, it’s understandable that the standard pronunciation of his name would get changed through diphthongs and relaxing the tongue. The reason this hijack about French phonetics occurred was because Sunspace brought up Claude Forget, a guy primarily known in a francophone context (sorry for the ambiguity–I tried to look him up on Wikipedia, but I didn’t get anything, and I’m not familiar with him). In this case, the standard pronunciation of his name would not be changed. When speaking English, it would be acceptable for you to say “For-jhay”, just because we’re not familiar with the vowel distinction. However, in French (which is what Sunspace was referring to), his name would be /foR3Δ/. (Apologies for the crappy IPA.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-a-name-is-jonbenet-anyway/369677.md?page=4)