# How common/hard is it to go from enlisted man to officer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344 "2013-01-07T14:56:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/41 "2013-01-09T13:44:51Z")
Hey, I’m March '93 myself. That’s officially makes me the Old Man of my reserve unit. Who knows what the kids these days are doing? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/42 "2013-01-09T13:51:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, I’m March '93 myself. That’s officially makes me the Old Man of my reserve unit. Who knows what the kids these days are doing? I’d say “get off my lawn” if any of the grass were showing above the current flooding… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/43 "2013-01-09T14:17:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > In may ways, where you start in the military determines your military career - for instance, all of the IDF Chiefs of Staff (except for the one pilot) started out as grunts in either infantry, airborne or \*sayeret \*(special ops) units. That’s interesting- I’d have thought that armor would be more represented among the top brass, considering the prominent role that armored warfare has had in most Israeli wars after 1948. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/44 "2013-01-09T14:32:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s interesting- I’d have thought that armor would be more represented among the top brass, considering the prominent role that armored warfare has had in most Israeli wars after 1948. They are. I suspect \*\*Alessan \*\*\*meant \*“Armor” rather than “Airborne” (especially since he specifically mentions the one pilot as an _exception_ to the rule). Which would IMO make the statement correct. But he’ll need to clarify for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/45 "2013-01-09T15:07:22Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > They are. I suspect \*\*Alessan \*\*\*meant \*“Armor” rather than “Airborne” (especially since he specifically mentions the one pilot as an _exception_ to the rule). Which would IMO make the statement correct. > > But he’ll need to clarify for himself. Nope. By airborne I meant paratroopers, which are strongly represented in the IDF General Staff (including the current Chief). To date, no tanker has ever held the top spot. Armor is respected, but the cult of the elite infantryman still reigns supreme. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/46 "2013-01-09T15:10:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, it’s like this. > > First of all, let me just note that the IDF doesn’t see a connection between a college degree and an officer’s commission, unless the degree is in the specific field the officer will be working in, and even then only under special circumstances. The lowest rank that requires a college degree is, I think, Lieutenant Colonel. Certain training courses grant their graduates degrees along with their rank, but that’s considered more of a perk than anything else. > … I think it’s rather different in the US. The basic qualifications for being an officer are a bachelor’s degree, officer training, US citizenship, and favorable medical and background check evaluations. Those who go to a Service Academy or do ROTC at a non-military school (like Virginia Tech) get their bachelor’s degree courses and officer training at the same time and graduate with a bachelor’s degree and a commission (Is it possible to complete the program and graduate but be denied a commission?). Those who go the OCS route already have a college degree and they pretty much just need the officer training, which includes Boot Camp and OCS. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/47 "2013-01-09T15:12:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To date, no tanker has ever held the top spot. ??? Laskov, Bar-Lev and Elazar (Dado) were all Tankers. You’re right that **since Dado in 1973** no Armor Chief has been appointed Chief of Staff (just like I expect it will be a while until we get another pilot after Halutz…) – but through Yom Kippur it was roughly 2:1 Infantry/Armor ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/48 "2013-01-09T15:35:12Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > So we have learned that it’s reasonably common to move from being an enlisted man in the U.S., and it’s quite standard to do this in Israel. What about other countries? I know that at one time it was barred in the Indian Army. Not sure if that’s the case still. Well not barred, but you had to be released from your enlistment and then apply afresh to the service academy, and qualify on your own merits meeting the criteria. In Pakistan we have had a least one army chief who started out as a private soldier and from my days as an army brat I recall at at least two of my fathers collegues who were “rankers”;started off as enlisted and both IIRC made general. But from what my father tells me, while the army did not exactly discourage men/women from applying so it was uncommon and echoing what others have said, experienced enlisted men saw the officer route as being a step down in actual. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/49 "2013-01-09T15:38:30Z")
Au contraire - the three you mentioned may have made their names in Armor, but they started out as Palmachniks, which is light infantry by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/50 "2013-01-09T15:44:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Au contraire - the three you mentioned may have made their names in Armor, but they started out as Palmachniks, which is light infantry by definition. Heh, I see the Red-Black feud is strong with this one 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344/51 "2013-01-09T16:06:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I never understood why guys who were in the E-7 to E-9 range would want to bother with officer programs. Why would anybody want to go from a senior position that took years to achieve to being the lowest guy on the totem pole? I never knew an E-9 who ever even considered going to CWO. Not only does a Navy Master Chief get more respect than anybody below the grade of O-6, he would take a pay cut to be a warrant officer or an ensign. I asked a couple Navy Master Chiefs and Warrant Officers about this. They were all retired; this was in the mid-70’s. They all said about the same things: they’d had opportunities to do OCS; after finishing they’d be Lieutenants (equivalent of Army Captain). Or perhaps it was LTJG (Army Lieutenant). They’d had positions of respect that they’d attained after long terms of service, and didn’t want to “start over” in the pack with a bunch of young guys. They said that most who jumped were people with serious ambitions to be skippers, even if it was a smaller craft, or other specific intentions. As mentioned above, it would have involved a big time commitment and a pay cut, with no guarantee they’d advance along with their new peers. They knew people who had done well by doing it, as well as people who wished they hadn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-hard-is-it-to-go-from-enlisted-man-to-officer/646344.md?page=2)