# How common in languages is the familiar pronoun present? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 17, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181 "2013-03-17T16:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/1 "2013-03-17T16:25:19Z")
I speak three languages. Two of them make use of the familiar first person pronoun. Spanish uses “tu”, Maya uses “tech”. Old English used “thee”. For you that know of other languages, or you that study linguistics, is the familiar used? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/2 "2013-03-17T16:29:31Z")
Japanese experts can check me on this, but I believe _kisama_ is the familiar second person singular and _kimi_ is the formal. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/3 "2013-03-17T16:45:37Z")
French has _toi_ as informal and _vous_ as formal. Catalan has _tu_ and _vosté/vos_ (varies by dialect). ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/4 "2013-03-17T17:00:51Z")
German has _du_ and _sie_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/5 "2013-03-17T20:02:47Z")
Finnish has familiar “sinä” and formal “te”, but the latter is rarely used except by shop attendants and the like. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/6 "2013-03-17T20:03:25Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > German has _du_ and _sie_. I think it’s actually _du_ and _Sie_. _sie_ is “she.” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/7 "2013-03-17T21:41:00Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Japanese experts can check me on this, but I believe _kisama_ is the familiar second person singular and _kimi_ is the formal. The Wikipedia article on [Japanese pronouns](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns) lists about 10 words for “you” (singular). Most range from informal to extremely rude, and the only one with a formal register in common use is “otaku”, which usually means something else (as it does in English). Japanese people avoid using words for “you”, with the exception of “anata” which is used by married women to address their husbands (and so is informal). Unless you are being rude, when you are referring to the person you are addressing, you use their name with an appropriate honorific, or you leave the name out altogether if it obvious who you are referring to from the context. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/8 "2013-03-17T21:54:31Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > I think it’s actually _du_ and _Sie_. _sie_ is “she.” Lower case “sie” is both “she” and “they”. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/9 "2013-03-17T22:27:32Z")
**Dutch** : jij/je - familiar (it’s not a gender distinction, more a question of emphasis) (gij/ge - archaic familiar, still in use in Belgium cos them people talk funneh) u - formal **Portuguese** : tu - familiar você - formal o senhor/a senhora - more formal, literally meaning “the gentleman/the lady”, but used as personal pronoun, so eg “a senhora vai sozinha?” = lit. “the lady is going alone?”, but means “are you going alone?” In Brazil an interesting thing is happening at the moment, really the same thing that has already happened in English: as “tu” has fallen into disuse, it is becoming archaic. As it becomes archaic, it seems formal to uneducated people, even though it originally isn’t formal. It sounds like the language of the bible to people who don’t otherwise use it, or like Shakespeare. So it is becoming like “thee” in English: it’s familiar, but many people mistake it for being formal purely because it’s archaic. The best thing is, they don’t know how to conjugate the verbs to go with “tu”, so they will use the conjugation for você: eg “tu vai”, when it should be “tu vais” or “você vai”. **Romanian** : tu - familiar dumneata - medium familiar, eg an older person addressing a younger person they don’t know dumneavoastră - formal (I love this one, how awesome is that word?!) ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/10 "2013-03-17T23:09:07Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > In Brazil an interesting thing is happening at the moment, really the same thing that has already happened in English: as “tu” has fallen into disuse, it is becoming archaic. As it becomes archaic, it seems formal to uneducated people, even though it originally isn’t formal. It sounds like the language of the bible to people who don’t otherwise use it, or like Shakespeare. So it is becoming like “thee” in English: it’s familiar, but many people mistake it for being formal purely because it’s archaic. The best thing is, they don’t know how to conjugate the verbs to go with “tu”, so they will use the conjugation for você: eg “tu vai”, when it should be “tu vais” or “você vai”. That’s funny. My daughter says, “Tell them to go back before they have to invent ‘y’all’!” The Spanish that’s spoken in New Mexico seems to be going the opposite direction: “tu” is used almost exclusively nowadays, and when I’ve used my laughably primitive high-school Spanish on actual Spanish-speakers, I can see them stifling hilarity as I “usted” them all over the place to show respect. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/11 "2013-03-17T23:18:34Z")
Russian _ty_ (informal) and _vy_ (formal), ты and вы in Cyrillic. I believe the same is true for every other Slavic language I’ve encountered (Czech, Slovak, Polish, Belarussian, Ukrainian). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/12 "2013-03-17T23:31:05Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > Finnish has familiar “sinä” and formal “te”, but the latter is rarely used except by shop attendants and the like. Swedish is similar. Du/dig is the familiar and ni/er is the formal, but the formal has fallen out of usage and instead is only really used as the plural these days. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/13 "2013-03-17T23:51:35Z")
Italian: tu and voi are informal; Lei and Loro are formal. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/14 "2013-03-17T23:53:19Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > That’s funny. My daughter says, “Tell them to go back before they have to invent ‘y’all’!” Haha! It’s ok, they’re safe as they already have a grammatically correct form of y’all: vocês. Reminds me of a production of _A Midsummer Night’s Dream_ I was in years ago. There was a girl from Texas who just couldn’t stop herself from saying “th’all”. Brilliant! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/15 "2013-03-17T23:59:38Z")
Vietnamese has a crazy number of pronouns that differ by gender, familiarity, social status, familial relationship and any number of other factors. The system of familial pronouns (big sister, little sibling, aunt, etc) does double duty to refer to certain other non-relatives in various settings. But short answer is yes, degree of familiarity does change the pronoun used. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/16 "2013-03-18T00:06:02Z")
Turkish has _sen_ (informal) and \*siz \*(formal/plural). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/17 "2013-03-18T00:10:59Z")
OP, are you asking familiar / formal or singular / plural? The latter is very common in world languages, probably the default, while the former is rarer. The English singular / informal was _thou_; _thee_ is the object case, like _I_ and _me_. Irish has singular / plural, but as far as I understand the plural (_sibh_) isn’t used as a formal; that’s still the singular _tú_. Scottish Gaelic, on the other hand, uses _sibh_ as a formal. Welsh and Breton also do the plural = formal thing. Welsh singular/informal is _ti_ (S. Wales) / _chdi_ (parts of N. Wales, some constructions), plural _chi_; Breton is _te_ and _c’hwi_. The German and Italian formals, on the other hand, appear to come from the third person. I am not sure about the German, but in Italian you use the 3rd person verb. You do in Spanish as well, but _Usted_ comes from _vuestra merced_, “your (pl.) mercy”. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/18 "2013-03-18T02:57:23Z")
In Mandarin, “ni” is informal and “nin” is “formal”, or honorific, I should say. Hardly ever used in the diaspora, I think, but you would have to get a mainlander to confirm if it’s used commonly there. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/19 "2013-03-18T17:35:31Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > Finnish has familiar “sinä” and formal “te”, but the latter is rarely used except by shop attendants and the like. > [@amanset](#): > > Swedish is similar. Du/dig is the familiar and ni/er is the formal, but the formal has fallen out of usage and instead is only really used as the plural these days. What **amanset** wrote with the addition that Swedish shop assistants are like the Finnish ones and say _Ni_, thinking they are polite, when they really are frightfully insulting to us oldies who know that _Ni_ is the old way to address underlings and were very happy when the use of _du_ broke through and spared us from a number of awkward ways to address people we weren’t familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181/20 "2013-03-18T20:49:21Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > What **amanset** wrote with the addition that Swedish shop assistants are like the Finnish ones and say _Ni_, thinking they are polite, when they really are frightfully insulting to us oldies who know that _Ni_ is the old way to address underlings and were very happy when the use of _du_ broke through and spared us from a number of awkward ways to address people we weren’t familiar with. Seriously? I didn’t actually know that. At this rate “ni” must be due a change of meaning again soon 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-in-languages-is-the-familiar-pronoun-present/653181.md?page=2)