# How common is it for black off-duty officers to get shot by police in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456 "2018-07-23T18:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/1 "2018-07-23T18:01:19Z")
Are there stats which would compare that demographic to the black US population as a whole? By gender/age/region? How common is it for them to be stopped or searched? The results could be interpreted a few ways but I’m curious to know. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/2 "2018-07-23T18:03:52Z")
I ran a search and in the first few pages, exactly one, in NJ, in 2017. > **[White Police Officer in St. Louis Shoots Off-Duty Black Colleague (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/us/saint-louis-black-officer.html)** > > The city’s police department said a white officer feared for his safety when he shot a black off duty officer who had tried to help with an arrest. He was only slightly injured. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/3 "2018-07-23T18:25:01Z")
ETA: How about compared to white off-duty officers or white non-police? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/4 "2018-07-23T18:40:26Z")
Here’s one that happened here in RI some years back: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel\_Young\_Jr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_Young_Jr). ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/5 "2018-07-23T19:21:50Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Are there stats which would compare that demographic to the black US population as a whole? By gender/age/region? > > How common is it for them to be stopped or searched? > > The results could be interpreted a few ways but I’m curious to know. It’s not directly on point, since it’s limited to fatal shootings. But [this study](https://sites.hks.harvard.edu/criminaljustice-backup/publications/Police-on-Police_Shootings_with_appendices.pdf) looked at fatal police-on-police shootings between 1981 and 2009. They identified 26 examples. Of that, 10 were black, 14 were white and 2 were hispanic. The appendix breaks down plainclothes vs. undercover vs. off-duty. Of the 10 black officers killed 8 of them were “off-duty”. Only 1 white “off-duty” cop was killed, the others were undercover or plainclothes (with 1 in uniform). The study spanned roughly 30 years. The latter of the study period skews heavily towards black officers being killed (8 of 14 black, 2 Hispanic between 1995-2009). ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/6 "2018-07-24T00:19:26Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > How common is it for black off-duty officers to get shot by police in the US? Not sure, but they do [occasionally shoot themselves.](http://www.kbzk.com/story/38664742/charges-filed-against-wyoming-officer-for-colorado-gun-incident) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/7 "2018-07-24T00:41:34Z")
Here is a case somewhat relevant: > [@](#): > > Jacai Colson, a Prince George’s County (Mary.) cop, was killed over the weekend by friendly fire during a shootout outside PGC police headquarters. Today in a press conference, police chief Hank Stawinski said that Colson was shot not accidentally, but instead “deliberately,” by a fellow officer who mistook him for one of the three suspects who participated in the offensive. > > According to Stawinski, Colson, who was an undercover narcotics detective, was not in uniform and had gotten out of an unmarked vehicle at the station prior to being shot. It’s also worth noting that like the three suspects—Michael, Elijah, and Malik Ford—Colson was black. But Colson, pictured above, looked nothing like the suspects, who are pictured here. [http://gawker.com/black-maryland-cop-killed-by-fellow-officer-who-thought-1765358994](http://gawker.com/black-maryland-cop-killed-by-fellow-officer-who-thought-1765358994) One has the feeling that if officer Colson had been white he wouldn’t have been killed. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/8 "2018-07-24T14:24:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Here’s one that happened here in RI some years back: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel\_Young\_Jr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_Young_Jr). Link fixed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/9 "2018-07-24T15:17:57Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here is a case somewhat relevant: > > [http://gawker.com/black-maryland-cop-killed-by-fellow-officer-who-thought-1765358994](http://gawker.com/black-maryland-cop-killed-by-fellow-officer-who-thought-1765358994) > > One has the feeling that if officer Colson had been white he wouldn’t have been killed. While your statement is right, you have to consider the situation in context. If you were told that there were black suspects shooting at officers, and then you looked in the parking lot and saw a black man who is not in police uniform, crouched behind a car with his gun drawn, that is a suspicious situation. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/10 "2018-07-24T17:04:24Z")
And if it had been white suspects shooting at officers, it is doubtful their race would have been mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/11 "2018-07-24T18:55:19Z")
I Googled standard physical description of a suspect. First result: [Should newspapers print the race of suspects? - syracuse.com](https://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/should_newspapers_print_the_ra.html) > [@](#): > > When the news of the search hits the media, Syracuse police homicide detective John Nolan wants the stories to mention the suspect’s race. > > “Gender, race and age are the top three descriptive features you want The Post-Standard to publish,” Nolan said. > > It’s all about narrowing the population down to find the suspect, he said. Second result: [Describing a Suspect | City of Kearney, NE - Official Website](https://www.cityofkearney.org/632/Describing-a-Suspect) > [@](#): > > Try to notice basic physical details such as race, sex, age, height, weight and build. I Googled “how to form an accurate physical description of a suspect.” First result: [https://home.chicagopolice.org/get-involved-with-caps/hotlines-and-cpd-contacts/how-to-describe-a-suspect/](https://home.chicagopolice.org/get-involved-with-caps/hotlines-and-cpd-contacts/how-to-describe-a-suspect/) > [@](#): > > A variety of general description information about the suspect should be noted: > Sex > Race or national origin > Age (estimated) > Height-use comparisons with your own height, a door, or some other standard measure > Weight (estimated) > Build-fat, husky, slim, muscular, etc. Second result: [Police Department | City of Sacramento](https://www.cityofsacramento.org/-/media/Corporate/Files/Police/Resources/Suspect-Description-Form-SPD.pdf?la=en) > [@](#): > > Sex: Male Female > Race: Age: Height: Weight: (This is pulled from a form, race is the second attribute listed after sex.) I assure you, race would have been mentioned in a physical description of the suspect. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/12 "2018-07-24T19:03:15Z")
A factor that can eliminate 50% of the population is worth mentioning; one that eliminates 85% of the random population probably needs mentioning too. Depending on how age is specified, that could likely eliminate 50% of the population or better… Put it all together, and you’ve got a much smaller group to shoot at. Just as for white suspects, hair colour can narrow down the suspect pool to what, about 40% of random passers-by? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/13 "2018-07-24T20:25:38Z")
s Falchion’s post mentioned, it’s much more common (or less rare) for black officers to be shot by another police officer _while on-duty_. Often while working undercover and have moved to a location where the local on-duty officers don’t know that they are in the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/14 "2018-07-24T20:55:41Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > s Falchion’s post mentioned, it’s much more common (or less rare) for black officers to be shot by another police officer _while on-duty_. Unless I’m misreading the study, it’s exactly the opposite. Almost all of the black officers were shot while _off-duty_. The undercover or plainclothes officers that were shot tended to be white. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-it-for-black-off-duty-officers-to-get-shot-by-police-in-the-us/818456/15 "2018-07-24T21:42:40Z")
My question was badly formulated. I should have included undercover and plainclothes officers. I want to know how likely black police officers are to get shot/searched/stopped when other police officers don’t know they’re police.