# How common is the misuse of the word "apogee" to refer to the midday sun? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648 "2014-04-22T02:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/21 "2014-04-22T16:32:57Z")
It’s normal enough to broaden “apogee” so that it means the high point of anything–for example, “My career was at its apogee last decade”. I personally would use “apex” instead. But if you chose to use apogee, I would know what you were saying. Unless you were an astronaut, I would understand that your career was not literally at its farthest point from earth. **However** , I would prefer **not** to use (or hear) apogee when talking about the Sun. In an astronomical context, the technical meaning and the poetic meaning are too easily confused. “The Sun was at apogee-what does he mean? Is he confused with _aphelion_, when earth (in January) is farthest from the Sun? Does he mean it was brightest? Does he mean it was _culminating_, which is what we say when an object crosses the meridian? Confusion.” ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/22 "2014-04-22T17:01:10Z")
I’ve often seen the French word _apogée_ used to describe the Sun at midday, in literary contexts. The meaning was “highest point”. But, in general, it’s a more common word in French than in English. Yes, it’s technically inaccurate, but so is “sunrise” (it’s not really rising, is it?). And “new Moon”, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/23 "2014-04-22T17:27:05Z")
But doesn’t the daily highest point of the sun have more to do with the Earth’s rotation and not it’s orbit? I’d use “zenith” myself. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/24 "2014-04-22T17:33:05Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I can never remember apogee vs. perigee anyway. Are there many other people here likewise? Yes. But think “apex” to remember apogee is at the top or peak. Or you can try to use **Trinopus** ’s list, but I’m not sure how those suggest perigee is the lowest point. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/25 "2014-04-22T17:40:24Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No body circles the Earth. > > Not even the Moon and the artificial satellites. > > It’s all a matter of what is mathematically easier to describe. When the math is easier with the Sun in the center (or in a center) we put it there; when it’s the Earth, or Jupiter, or Io, that’s what we use. > > Then again, what my Physics teacher used to say is “we are engineers because we know how to change the frame of reference”; being able to change it back and forth so the total work is simpler may be an engineery thing. Maybe I’m confused on your point, and while the mathematics of orbits and planetary motion are easier to predict under heliocentrism, the specific objects you mention, like the moon and satellites, of course _do_ physically “circle” or orbit the earth; and the earth orbits the sun. As per the OP, I’d know what you meant from context. I really don’t see an issue using it the way you have… it’s lyrics man… I rather like the metaphor in this sense. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/26 "2014-04-22T17:53:45Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Yes. But think “apex” to remember apogee is at the top or peak. > > Or you can try to use **Trinopus** ’s list, but I’m not sure how those suggest perigee is the lowest point. My easy mnemonic: Apo and apart sound a lot alike, so apogee, apohelion, etc. is the point of the orbit farthest apart from Earth, the Sun, etc. Since I know peri- means the opposite, I can remember it in reference to apo-. If it’s not the farthest point, it’s the closest, hence perigee or perihelion. And I agree using apogee instead of zenith to describe the position of the noon sun is weird and confusing. I’ve never heard apogee used outside of an astronomical context, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/27 "2014-04-22T18:09:10Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > And I agree using apogee instead of zenith to describe the position of the noon sun is weird and confusing. Zenith is equally weird and confusing, unless you are at the latitude in the tropics where the Sun does in fact reach the zenith on a given day. I understand that zenith is also used metaphorically, to describe the high point of anything–a career, a trend, a stock price. But again, one does well to stay away from it in an astronomical context, unless one is in fact referring to the point directly over the observer. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/28 "2014-04-22T18:19:56Z")
By way of analogy, it’s fine to tell me that you can’t get to first base with your date or with your job search. But if you tell me that you can’t get to first base with your new baseball swing, and you mean it metaphorically, you’re going to confuse me. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/29 "2014-04-22T19:01:37Z")
The misuse of the word “apogee” to refer to the midday sun is very slightly common. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/30 "2014-04-22T20:58:21Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > . . . Apo and apart sound a lot alike, so apogee, apohelion, etc. is the point of the orbit farthest apart from Earth, the Sun, etc. . . . That works! As noted above, “peri” actually means “around,” like a perimeter. The periosteum, in anatomy, is a tissue that surrounds a bone. The pericardium surrounds the heart. They are “close” to the bone and the heart. The connotation to “closeness” is kind of loose. I’m trying to cast my mind back to the good old Apollo days (which, of course, we all know was just a hoax…) I don’t recall the news networks saying “pericynthion.” I thought they mostly said “perilune.” (And why not periselene? If the study of lunar minerals is selenology…? Or would this be the sin of mixing Latin and Greek roots?) (I did find one hair-splitter who said that perilune applied to orbiters launched from the moon, while pericynthion applied to orbiters launched from somewhere else, such as the earth. Hm! Not quite sure I agree…) ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/31 "2014-04-23T03:00:13Z")
Since a few of you have said you’ve never heard the word used outside of an astronomical context, I’ve dug up a few examples of “apogee” being used to refer to the midday sun, or the sun being very high in the sky. Note: I am not offering these examples as cites that it is a correct usage. I recognize that the usage is incorrect. But, again, I posted the OP wondering if the incorrect usage is common enough to qualify as an alternate meaning through common usage. (and from this Thread, I’m inclined to think it doesn’t) > [@](#): > > [With the sun at its apogee, we took a break and ate our packed lunches while resting in the cool shadows of the ruins.](http://www.educationworldonline.net/index.php/page-article-choice-more-id-504) > [@](#): > > [the hawk is the bird of the sun, and with the sun at its apogee, it might be thought at the height of its powers. However, noon represents a time between, a kind of interstice.](http://www.hotcakencyclopedia.com/ho.HolyOneAndHisBrother.html) > [@](#): > > [With the sun at its apogee and us exposed to its merciless touch at all angles, we found our way to the waterfront where the plan was to park, take in a meal at a recommended restaurant, have an ice cream](http://jamieandcelia.blogspot.com/) > [@](#): > > [Those dining at Stillwater during the sun’s apogee hour can avail themselves of classics such as the fish ’n’ chips ($11, with fries, coleslaw, and tartar sauce) or lighter fare such as the grilled ahi tuna salad](http://www.groupon.com/deals/stillwater-grill) > [@](#): > > [UN peacekeepers, whose ranks also swelled after the quake, organized food distributions with a defensive posture, herding thousands of Haitians into open squares under the sun’s apogee, then standing in front of food with riot shields](http://rapadoo.com/2013/06/03/how-the-u-n-the-media-and-the-military-mishandled-haitis-quake-hit-run-reason-com/) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/32 "2014-04-23T03:55:08Z")
What’s a periwinkle then? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/33 "2014-04-23T04:09:31Z")
It’s the opposite of an apowinkle. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/34 "2014-04-23T11:49:24Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > It’s the opposite of an apowinkle. 😕 So where does Bullwinkle fit in? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/35 "2014-04-24T20:14:23Z")
“Apogee” doesn’t mean “highest point”; it means “furthest from Earth”. These two are often the same thing: For instance, if I toss a baseball into the air, and it comes back down, I could rightly call its highest point its apogee. But the Sun, while it is in some sense “higher” at noon, is not any further from Earth then than it is at any other time. It’s at its furthest from the plane of your horizon, but that plane is not the Earth. You might want to just use “apex” instead. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/36 "2014-04-25T02:04:51Z")
> [@](#): > > How common is the misuse of the word “apogee” to refer to the midday sun? If it’s common enough, it ceases to be misuse. That’s the cool thing about language. Nobody owns it; instead, everyone does. The astronomers only get to define the word in their special way when it’s being used in their own professional conversations. Similarly for terms of art from other professions. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648/37 "2014-04-25T16:52:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If it’s common enough, it ceases to be misuse. Well, yeah, I just recently discover the chasm between the scientific meaning of “berry” and the common usage. The point of this Thread was to determine whether the technically incorrect “midday sun” usage of “apogee” was seen commonly enough to be considered a valid alternate meaning through common usage. A few posts up, I provided a few examples of it being used in this way. My general feeling from this Thread, however, is that in this case it is not common enough to cease to be misuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-is-the-misuse-of-the-word-apogee-to-refer-to-the-midday-sun/686648.md?page=1)