# How common was "Draw straws to determine who will be eaten" in maritime disasters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761 "2022-07-11T14:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/21 "2022-07-12T03:34:21Z")
There’s a pretty good Youtube video by Ask A Mortician about the Essex case, that’s worth a watch if you’re interested in some more detail about how the cannibalism went down in that instance. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/QS299VkXZxI/maxresdefault.jpg "The Real Moby Dick Was So Much Worse") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS299VkXZxI) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/22 "2022-07-12T16:18:23Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > It sounds like something fun you do when you’re aboard a cruise ship. I’ll have to remember that if I’m at sea and my shipmates ask if I want to play “custom of the sea”. I remember that time aboard the “Carnival of the Seas”. In retrospect we may have resorted to cannibalism too early, but the elevator had been stuck since 9:30 am, and some of us had skipped breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/23 "2022-07-12T16:29:51Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > some of us had skipped breakfast And those who hadn’t smelled of bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/24 "2022-07-12T16:39:31Z")
Where did they get the straws? Also, as an alternative to kill-and-eat … assuming they had a sharp sword and a sound leather strap, couldn’t they amputate one survivor’s leg below the knee and subsist on that for a few days, then move on to the next person? ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/25 "2022-07-12T16:53:21Z")
A few more literary cites, mostly from Terry Pratchett (@Bill_Door, I know where that name is from) - _Monstrous Regiment_ described soldiers in an imaginary country called Borogravia where winter forays could be snowed in and there was a “leg rota”. Old soldiers with peg legs. - _Snuff_ described a famine-related practice that I won’t describe here because it’d be kind of a spoiler. Also mentioned “castaway” scenarios similar to the original question. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/26 "2022-07-12T17:00:46Z")
Amputations aren’t a clean process. The, ah, donor, would need more extra rations to survive than you’d get from the amputated part. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/27 "2022-07-12T17:45:47Z")
Ah, you’re no fun anymore. /python ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/28 "2022-07-12T17:46:05Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > There was a polar expedition where one member turned out to be a sociopath, and the other members killed him because they knew they would all die otherwise. He was stealing food, among other things. It wasn’t a polar expedition, and I’m not sure how accurate the mention of cannibalism I recall was, but your description reminded me of the shipwreck Batavia. > **[Batavia (1628 ship)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia_(1628_ship))** > > Batavia (\[baˈtaːvia\] ⓘ) was a ship of the Dutch East India Company (VOC). She was built in Amsterdam in 1628 as the flagship of one of the three annual fleets of company ships and sailed that year on her maiden voyage for Batavia, capital of the Dutch East Indies. On 4 June 1629, Batavia was wrecked on the Houtman Abrolhos, a chain of small islands off the western coast of Australia. > As the ship broke apart, approximately 300 of the Batavia's 341 passengers made their way ashore, the rest dro... ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/29 "2022-07-13T07:10:50Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The wreck of the Medusa is a wonderful tale! 😲 In my recollection, far more common than drawing straws is the situation where one survivor dies - either from injuries incurred in the wreck, from drinking seawater, or just giving up/weak constitution, and the survivors grapple with whether or not to eat them. Agree - it’s grisly, but a fascinating story. I read about it in [this](https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-World-10-Chapters/dp/0099540126) book (which is sort of a work of fiction wrapped around real historical events (and one or two legends/myths) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/30 "2022-07-13T11:22:36Z")
I’m pretty sure [this is the book](https://www.amazon.com/Wreck-Medusa-Disaster-Nineteenth-Century/dp/080214392X) I read. Not only about the wreck, the survivors who stayed, those who trudged to safety, and the painting. A really good example of a type of book I enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2022, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/31 "2022-07-14T06:39:26Z")
There is no cannibalism in the British Navy. Absolutely none, and when I say none, I mean there is a certain amount. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2022, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/32 "2022-07-14T07:56:22Z")
Strictly as a last resort, when all other measures, such as sodomy, have failed. ---
**Author:** ![Jingleheimer-Schmidt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Jingleheimer-Schmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jingleheimer-Schmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/33 "2022-07-15T13:38:03Z")
Surprised no one has mentioned [Cannibalism in the Cars - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_the_Cars). Some of Twain’s best work. (Though I think it’s really more about pompous and procedure-focused government than about the actual cannibalism itself.) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/34 "2022-08-24T20:25:43Z")
I intended to post this earlier, but forgot. Apart from the three cases of lot-casting mentioned in the Wikipedia page linked above, there are at least two others which I’ve found. They are both mentioned in this (somewhat humorous) podcast about cannibalism at sea. Note: the humour may not be to everyone’s taste. (so to speak). > **[S1 E5. SEA PART II – The Custom of the Sea](https://castinglotspod.home.blog/2019/11/21/5-sea-part-ii-the-custom-of-the-sea/)** > > Eating your crew-mates after a shipwreck used to be so common that it was known as the ‘custom of the sea’. This episode, Alix offers up a buffet of maritime disasters that ended in cannibalism. TR… The two cases mentioned are the _Peggy_ (which is also mentioned in the book _In The Heart of the Sea_, by the way), in which one person was killed and eaten after drawing lots; another crewmember was chosen by the same method, but they were rescued before he was consumed. Although he survived, the experience is supposed to have driven him mad. The other instance mentioned is the _Francis Spaight_, which seems to have included a number of instances of cannibalism, at least one of which involved lot-casting. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/35 "2024-04-19T23:50:31Z")
So I stand corrected on this one. It was actually relatively common, it was considered part of custom of the sea. I just listened to episode of the excellent The Constant podcast on this very subject: > **[Necessity](https://www.constantpodcast.com/episodes/necessity)** > > Your second favorite series about putting right what once went wrong The key point about starvation vs dying of thirst thing is that the victims blood can be drunk(as long as you don’t wait for them to die naturally and then for it to coagulate.) It was so common that the British government decided there needed to be a test case to show that it wasn’t in fact a legal defense to excuse killing someone: > **[R v Dudley and Stephens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens)** > > R v Dudley and Stephens (1884) 14 QBD 273, DC is a leading English criminal case which established a precedent throughout the common law world that necessity is not a defence to a charge of murder. The case concerned survival cannibalism following a shipwreck, and its purported justification on the basis of a custom of the sea. > The four-man crew of the wrecked yacht Mignonette were cast adrift in a small lifeboat without provisions. After nearly three weeks at sea, and with little hope of re... Also the podcaster pointed out that while there were plenty of cases of allegedly “drawing lots” (described by the survivors naturally) they all tender to result in the weakest, childless, or for some other reason the one that the crew would want to be the victim, being chosen. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/36 "2024-04-20T14:29:01Z")
I know that it was a mine cave-in, rather than a maritime disaster, but I doubt we will ever know if Timothy was selected by drawing straws. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/37 "2024-04-20T15:10:28Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > It was so common that the British government decided there needed to be a test case to show that it wasn’t in fact a legal defense to excuse killing someone: > > [R v Dudley and Stephens - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens) For those who might wonder, Queen Victoria eventually pardoned Dudley and Stephens. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/38 "2024-04-21T07:12:56Z")
It seems to me that joking about drawing straws is infinitely more common than actually doing it. I’m sure it happened once or twice. Just not nearly as much as people talk about it. It also seems unlikely to be in a situation where there is plenty of water and not enough food. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/39 "2024-04-21T12:10:21Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > It seems to me that joking about drawing straws is infinitely more common than actually doing it. > I’m sure it happened once or twice. Just not nearly as much as people talk about it. This was my opinion before I heard that podcast I linked to [above](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/35). It was common enough to be considered part of maritime life, and acceptable morally and legally, to the point where the British government decided they needed a test case to show that it was in fact unacceptable legally and still murder. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > It also seems unlikely to be in a situation where there is plenty of water and not enough food. This was also my objection but the key point is that drinking the victims blood is the thing that will keep you alive with no water. Also waiting for the victim die naturally won’t help you there as the blood will coagulate. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761/40 "2024-04-22T20:44:07Z")
I came across another reference to this in Shackleton’s Endurance expedition. This was from one of the group of men left behind on Elephant Island when Shackleton went sailing off for help. > [@From: South With Endurance - Shackleton's Antarctic Expedition](#): > > Charles Green later told Shackleton biographer James Fisher, “Earlier in the expedition, if anybody killed a seal, they had the brains for perks. But later, on Elephant Island, we were starving–it was suggested that we were going to have to cast lots to see which one was going to be done in first. I said to them, 'Whoever is going to be killed, I’m going to have the job of cooking him–and I want the brains…” Fortunately, Shackleton returned before they had to make that decision. All men were saved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-common-was-draw-straws-to-determine-who-will-be-eaten-in-maritime-disasters/967761.md?page=3)