# How Compromise Works **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029 "2019-02-05T21:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/1 "2019-02-05T21:40:24Z")
Alonso wants to go out for pizza for dinner, and Bree wants to go out for sauteed tofu with brown rice. Both of them want a beer with dinner. They only have one car, so they can’t go to both Alonso’s favorite pizzeria and Bree’s favorite vegan cafe. Here are some approaches to the negotiation that aren’t about compromise: 1. Alonso blocks the door and refuses to let anyone leave the house until everyone agrees on pizza. 2. Alonso argues that everyone loves pizza, and that Bree is just refusing to go along with what everyone wants. 3. Alonso says that Bree can put some tofu on her piece of pizza, and so he’s made a very generous sacrifice, so they should go get pizza. 4. Alonso says that if they go out for pizza, they can order beers. 5. Alonso insists without evidence that pizza is healthier than tofu and that Bree knows this and just wants him to die and that’s why she wants to go to get tofu, so they should go get pizza. Here’s what compromise looks like. 5) Alonso asks Bree what he can do for her to persuade her to go out to pizza tonight. She suggests that he could handle all the grocery shopping next week. He doesn’t want to do that, but he wants pizza enough to agree to do it. 6) Bree suggests going to this other vegetarian restaurant. Their pizza isn’t as good, and the tofu’s sometimes a little bland, so neither of them will get what they want, but they get more than they’d get if they surrendered entirely to the other person. This is simple, right? Compromise means that you don’t get everything you want, nor does your counterpart; but both of you get more than you’d get by surrendering to the other person. And compromise requires listening to what the other person would want. Resolved: A) Modern American politicians are deliberate idiots about compromising. B) Alonso is Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/2 "2019-02-05T22:18:49Z")
Modern America is not sauteed tofu (blurgh). As for Trump, he might indeed be willing to find common ground with a tofu-eater. _“How you eat your pizza can say a lot about you. Make of this what you will: Trump eats his with a fork, scraping off the toppings and never ever eating the crust. Left behind on his plate, you’ll find a mangled slab of bread; the president reportedly thinks this tactic helps him keep his weight down.”_ > **[A Complete Guide to Donald Trump's Favorite Foods Slideshow](https://thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/complete-guide-donald-trump-s-favorite-foods-slideshow/slide-16)** > > The president is generally unpredictable — but if there's anything we can be sure that Trump isn't, it's a health nut Compromise: Trump takes disdainful progressive America out for [veggie tofu pizza](http://bettycrocker.com/recipes/veggie-tofu-pizza/b69bf7b6-9e50-44df-a4b8-a7e04fca597e), scrapes his toppings off and leaves the crust for his critics. It’s the art of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/3 "2019-02-05T22:20:41Z")
Since today is the tenth anniversary of [one of the truly classic blog posts about compromise](https://www.balloon-juice.com/2009/02/05/youll-never-get-this-21-minutes-of-your-life-back/) in our current era, I feel compelled to quote it: > [@](#): > > I really don’t understand how bipartisanship is ever going to work when one of the parties is insane. Imagine trying to negotiate an agreement on dinner plans with your date, and you suggest Italian and she states her preference would be a meal of tire rims and anthrax. If you can figure out a way to split the difference there and find a meal you will both enjoy, you can probably figure out how bipartisanship is going to work the next few years. John Cole, 2/5/2009. The message, of course, is that when the parties desire fundamentally different and contradictory things, it doesn’t leave much room for horse-trading. If in return for getting something that I want but you don’t, I give up something that you want but I don’t - well, the only way that can work is if you can live with what you’re letting me have, and vice versa. But if the parties’ goals and values are so different that what each party wants looks like tire rims and anthrax to the other party, we’re stuck. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/4 "2019-02-05T22:22:24Z")
Compromising and negotiating are different words. Compromising is a subset of negotiating, but so is extortion. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/5 "2019-02-05T23:00:08Z")
The problem with compromise and negotiation is that, usually, both sides overestimate what they are giving up, and underestimate what they are getting in return. A 50-50 split often makes both sides feel like they got the short end of the stick. In order for one side to feel like they truly struck a fair middling compromise, they have to get something like 60% or 70% of the goods, to compensate for that illusory effect - but then the other side of course feels absolutely swindled and has no reason to go along. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/6 "2019-02-05T23:17:42Z")
I’ll agree with everything you said if you send me $20. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/7 "2019-02-05T23:29:49Z")
I just want the pizza eater(Trump) to shut-up. I’m trying not to cave but it’s getting harder. I don’t think I can choke down anymore of the awful pizza. I don’t really like tofu but it’s the only alternative to a wall of pizza that is exorbitant and unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/8 "2019-02-06T00:45:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Alonso wants to go out for pizza for dinner, and Bree wants to go out for sauteed tofu with brown rice. Both of them want a beer with dinner. They only have one car, so they can’t go to both Alonso’s favorite pizzeria and Bree’s favorite vegan cafe. (post shortened) Unfortunately, Bree made it very clear two years ago that Bree was not going to cooperate with, or would resist, any and all of Alonso’s choices. They still may be able to reach an agreement about who uses the car, and when, but I doubt it. Alonso could use the car on even numbered days, and Bree could use the car on odd numbered days, but they will probably disagree about who is odd. They could both have their meals delivered, and argue about why they never go out anymore. Maybe they could try and find acceptable restaurants that are located within an agreed upon walking distance (keywords being “agreed upon”). OTOH, compromise only works when both sides are willing to compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/9 "2019-02-06T01:06:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Unfortunately, Bree made it very clear two years ago that Bree was not going to cooperate with, or would resist, any and all of Alonso’s choices. They still may be able to reach an agreement about who uses the car, and when, but I doubt it. Alonso could use the car on even numbered days, and Bree could use the car on odd numbered days, but they will probably disagree about who is odd. They could both have their meals delivered, and argue about why they never go out anymore. Maybe they could try and find acceptable restaurants that are located within an agreed upon walking distance (keywords being “agreed upon”). > > OTOH, compromise only works when both sides are willing to compromise. Two years ago, Alonso wasn’t in a relationship with Bree. Alonso was dating Bree’s sister, Carmen, and though Carmen and Alonso generally agreed on everything (that is to say, Carmen was terrified of angering Alonso), the two of them managed to accomplish very little. Carmen’s gone for now, replaced with Bree, and now suddenly Bree’s at fault for not giving in to Alonso? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/10 "2019-02-06T01:11:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > OTOH, compromise only works when both sides are willing to compromise. :dubious: Somebody should try telling that to Mitch McConnell. Remember back in 2010 when [Republicans declared that refusing to compromise with the President was the preeminent political virtue](https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311)? > [@](#): > > Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We’re going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.” > > Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” It is ludicrous for conservatives and Republicans nowadays to pretend that it’s the other guys who are being unfairly uncooperative on compromising with them. McConnell and his ilk have made abundantly clear their complete untrustworthiness on the issue of political compromise (as well as many other issues). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/11 "2019-02-06T01:17:30Z")
This was the long way around just to get one more Trump/Republicans suck thread. Did you really think anybody would take up for them here in a meaningful way? ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/12 "2019-02-06T01:23:17Z")
I think it’s easier to say “who owns the car”? Well, if they’re a married couple who split the car, that can get awkward and fast… > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Alonso wants to go out for pizza for dinner, and Bree wants to go out for sauteed tofu with brown rice. Both of them want a beer with dinner. They only have one car, so they can’t go to both Alonso’s favorite pizzeria and Bree’s favorite vegan cafe. > > Here are some approaches to the negotiation that aren’t about compromise: > > 1. Alonso blocks the door and refuses to let anyone leave the house until everyone agrees on pizza. > 2. Alonso argues that everyone loves pizza, and that Bree is just refusing to go along with what everyone wants. > 3. Alonso says that Bree can put some tofu on her piece of pizza, and so he’s made a very generous sacrifice, so they should go get pizza. > 4. Alonso says that if they go out for pizza, they can order beers. > 5. Alonso insists without evidence that pizza is healthier than tofu and that Bree knows this and just wants him to die and that’s why she wants to go to get tofu, so they should go get pizza. > > Here’s what compromise looks like. > 5) Alonso asks Bree what he can do for her to persuade her to go out to pizza tonight. She suggests that he could handle all the grocery shopping next week. He doesn’t want to do that, but he wants pizza enough to agree to do it. > 6) Bree suggests going to this other vegetarian restaurant. Their pizza isn’t as good, and the tofu’s sometimes a little bland, so neither of them will get what they want, but they get more than they’d get if they surrendered entirely to the other person. > > This is simple, right? > > Compromise means that you don’t get everything you want, nor does your counterpart; but both of you get more than you’d get by surrendering to the other person. And compromise requires listening to what the other person would want. > > Resolved: > > A) Modern American politicians are deliberate idiots about compromising. > B) Alonso is Trump. Partisanship means you have to look like you’re opposing the other side in all things, even if you agree with them some of the time. So many Republicans publicly side with Trump but privately disagree with much of what he wants, and would vote for reasonable government bills if they could somehow do that privately (but they can’t). There’s a group of Republicans who got voted in specifically to oppose the Democrats, and generally represent very conservative districts. They’re not only “true believers”, but if they ever compromised they get primaried. And then there’s a group of moderate Republicans who fear they’ll get primaried if they compromise, because it’s the most conservative voters who vote in primaries, and they will vote any “collaborators” out, calling them RINOs. It’s a terrible system (except for almost all the others). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/13 "2019-02-06T02:41:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This was the long way around just to get one more Trump/Republicans suck thread. Did you really think anybody would take up for them here in a meaningful way? cool thx ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/14 "2019-02-06T02:46:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Unfortunately, Bree made it very clear two years ago that Bree was not going to cooperate with, or would resist, any and all of Alonso’s choices. Nonsense. Bree previously had a deal of pizza-and-tofu alternating nights, and Alonso agreed to follow it before backing out at the last minute and declaring no tofu, only pizza. Even Alonso’s friends are a little hesitant to hang out with him at this point. I started this thread after hearing yet another Republican on the news talking about what a major compromise Trump had offered to Democrats with his “Some DACA applicants will get a temporary reprieve, once the wall is built” proposal. This wasn’t a proposal arrived at during negotiations with Democrats–because those negotiations didn’t happen, because Trump walked out of them. It was an insult of an offer, the equivalent of, “If you let me get pizza, you can have a slice of tofu on top of your slice.” It fundamentally misunderstood the process of arriving at a compromise. If Trump sat down with Democrats and said, “I know that you think the wall is a super bad idea, but hey, you’ve got ideas I think are super-bad. What would I have to give you in order to get the wall?” then we’d be on the path to compromise. But that ain’t happening. And at this point, even if he claimed such an offer, he’s reneged on his word so many times that nobody could possibly believe he was negotiating in good faith. And McConnell won’t do that, because McConnell believes in outmaneuvering, not in negotiating. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/15 "2019-02-06T03:13:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Two years ago, Alonso wasn’t in a relationship with Bree. Alonso was dating Bree’s sister, Carmen, and though Carmen and Alonso generally agreed on everything (that is to say, Carmen was terrified of angering Alonso), the two of them managed to accomplish very little. > > Carmen’s gone for now, replaced with Bree, and now suddenly Bree’s at fault for not giving in to Alonso? Did you read the OP? There is no Carmen. And this thread is about How Compromise Works. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/16 "2019-02-06T03:15:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Somebody should try telling that to Mitch McConnell. (post shortened) “Somebody”? Why can’t you do that? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/17 "2019-02-06T03:20:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nonsense. Bree previously had a deal of pizza-and-tofu alternating nights, and Alonso agreed to follow it before backing out at the last minute and declaring no tofu, only pizza. Even Alonso’s friends are a little hesitant to hang out with him at this point. (post shortened) Maybe you should have included those tidbits in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/18 "2019-02-06T03:34:06Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > the president reportedly thinks this tactic helps him keep his weight down."\* > . Keep? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/19 "2019-02-06T03:52:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Why can’t you do that? Were you seriously asking why I do not have personal access to the ear of the elderly Senate Majority Leader who represents a state I don’t even live in? Or were you just trying to deflect attention from my pointing out that the Republicans’ record of partisan intransigence makes it clear that your attempt to blame Democrats for failures of compromise is hypocritical nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029/20 "2019-02-06T04:18:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Were you seriously asking why I do not have personal access to the ear of the elderly Senate Majority Leader who represents a state I don’t even live in? Or were you just trying to deflect attention from my pointing out that the Republicans’ record of partisan intransigence makes it clear that your attempt to blame Democrats for failures of compromise is hypocritical nonsense? YOU can send him a letter. YOU can ask either of YOUR two Senators to contact the Minority Leader on YOUR behalf. YOU can visit the Capital and talk to him in person. Or YOU can ask someone else to do it for YOU. Whichever is easier for YOU to perform. In 2017, elected Democrats made it abundantly clear that they were going to “resist” everything, and anything, the majority party proposed. Are you now suggesting that they didn’t do that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-compromise-works/829029.md?page=2)