I’m with most of the posters here. My daughter is almost 2 and before we go out, I make sure she’s got clean clothes on and her hair is combed. But she’s 2 and will pull her ponytail out at some point and will get sticky. I’ll just try to keep her as clean as I can while we’re out. I also try to save the messy dinners (spaghetti with a 2 year old can get very messy) for bath nights. However, I don’t really care about having fancy clothes. I don’t understand spending lots of money on things that she’ll only wear for 6 months, if that. I just care that the clothes are basically clean.
I don’t think it’s bad to say that the kid looks like a slob. It’s not like she said “you rotten little pig” or something.
When it comes to things that can’t be controlled like cleft lips, glasses, or a cowlick that just won’t stay down, I couldn’t care less. Nobody should be judged on things that are out of their control. And I hope I’m able to teach my daughter that.
I like for my kids to look presentable in public, but it doesn’t always happen, and some days, I don’t feel like arguing with a 3-year-old who wants to wear orange sunglasses and a red baseball cap and mismatched clothes. My kindergartener is such a fashion plate that he wants to wear Ralph Lauren/Calvin Klein/Guess/Tommy Hilfiger (whatever’s in fashion in kindergarten this week) clothes every day, so I have to talk him down to ordinary clothes; he also pitches a fit if his hair gets 1 cm too long, so it’s off to the barber every month or so for him. He is, I must say, quite fastidious about his appearance. I’m more of a slob myself, so I don’t know where he gets it.
When I was in Kindergarten, apparently I insisted on wearing a suit and tie to class. Every day. I have no memory of this, but I’ve seen the pictures that prove it. It seems my parents took it in stride.
I’m told the teachers called me ‘The Kindergarten CEO’.
When I was a male in high school in the late 70’s my mom said I could grow my hair as long as I wanted, so long as it was clean and I didn’t wear pony tail (something that would get your ass kicked in cowboy bars.)
Bad choice. I look back at my high school pictures and I looked like one of the Ramones. Not a good look for a small-town Montana high school.
I don’t think what you witnessed was that out of line, personally. I have 2 kids and I prefer that they not look like slobs either. When my daughter was small, she never left the hair without her face washed, hair fixed and nice clothes. Ditto my son.
As they have gotten older, they have been allowed more freedom in how they dress/fix their hair/etc – within reason. If my son (8) picks out clothes that are mis-matched, he is told that they do not match and given the option of changing into something that does match or picking a completely new outfit.
Chocolate on the face? Wiped off immediately. Dirt on hands? Ditto, cleaned. Now, my kids have always had the freedom to be total slobs/dirt maniacs at home. What do I care how they look in the privacy of their own home?
FTR, neither of my kids have ever been entered into pageants – I am not talking about being the psycho-mom who has to have the kids perfect at all times.
As for physical deformities – well, I hate to admit it, but I would definitely have those fixed if my kids had any. Not that I take issue with, look down upon or otherwise discriminate against people with physical deformities, just that I want more for my kids than that. Case in point – my daughter’s father has webbed feet (they run in his family, all the males have it) and it was mutually agreed upon before her birth that we would fix it if she had turned out to be a he with webbed feet. Why? Her father hated his and hated having been made fun of as a kid for it. We wanted more for her.
As for the OP, parents have to feed, clothe, house, and raise their kids. That includes encouraging cleanliness. Can a 3 year old keep or be kept clean? No. But the nagging will brainwash the kid, so that when s/he’s old enough to start dating, s/he will be presentable.
But you can’t always fix “deformities.” Birth marks may not be removable. My daughter’s eye is never going to work right. A kid with alopecia is going to have to live with a wig if she wants to have hair. And that’s not that terrible.
Recently I read an account of life with a birth mark by someone in one of my online communities. One of her biggest problems was dealing with other people’s problems with her mark–one doctor tried to sand it off her face, despite the fact that the mark went right through her cheek to the inside of her mouth. She had learned to live with her face as it was, but some people just wouldn’t let it go, and insisted that she must be miserable or possibly stupid.
I dunno. I don’t want to attack you or anything, Litoris, but this idea of “we want more for our kids” bugs me. People with physical abnormalities aren’t necessarily miserable, unloved, or whatever. I think it’s natural to want one’s children to be pretty and popular (as in, normal-looking and not bullied), but the idea that it’s a terrible affliction to have a physical difference is IMO one we should get rid of. Sadly, such differences are less and less tolerated in our appearance-obsessed culture, but it’s not right.
SiL was terribly angry (the angriest I’ve ever seen her) when her upcoming baby turned out to be a boy, because “I won’t be able to link with him! I won’t be able to dress him up!”
Prior to that, she’d been making all these plans involving ruffles (urgh) and lace (urrgmh!) and bows (xcusemgrrarn); every time she heard her, her best friend would point out that “any daughter of yours will be a daughter of your husband’s and therefore a niece to Nava - I’d make alternate plans with no pink in them if I was you.”
The Nephew has enough clothes to dress every kid in a Ruanda hospital. SiL doesn’t throw clothes away except under duress (there’s been times when my Bro has made with her a deal of “I’ll let you buy me new clothes if you give to Goodwill some of the stuff you haven’t worn in the last two years”) and loves loves loves clothes. 20mo Nephew will let himself get dressed up and already knows about matching outfits: if he knows that’s the hat from his tiger outfit, don’t try to put it on him when he’s wearing anything else (Mom and SiL also dress in “set outfits,” the Bros and me are of the “get stuff where anything matches anything” school of thought).
I care about the kid being clean and having as many clothes on as he needs - not more, no less. His Dad has learned about the matching outfits thing because well, now he’s one against two. SiL, I already told you - she can’t complain about not being able to use him as a dress-up doll, only about a definite lack of pink bows on ruffles…
One of my cousins is cross-eyed, big time. Sort of on the order of Fernando Trueba (he’s a movie director, so you can Google him easily). He’s also the family’s charmer
My mother didn’t really care about my appearance growing up. By the time I hit 6th grade, about once a week the teacher would corral be before school started, march me to the nurses office and have me wash up in the sink. This was because I didn’t bathe at home. Often for weeks at a time.
My clothes would usually fit, as I didn’t grow a lot till I was a teenager (and living with my father) but they were usually dirty. Like, wear the pants for 3-4 days, not taking them off at all, including sleeping in them dirty.
Now that I am 3000 miles away from my children, I am much more critical of their clothes and cleanliness when they come visit. My 9yo boy came off the plane this Christmas break in highwater pants, and shaggy hair. The hair was his choice, but the pants were just what he had.
I spent 16 days teaching him how to tell when clothes don’t fit, and drilled into my daughter (12) with the help of my wife that she needs things, like bras and to take care of her hair.
20 years ago, I wasn’t aware of what was expected.
10 years ago, I didn’t care much, but I was aware.
Now, I am VERY aware, and trying to pass that on to my kids as best I can.
IMO you’re making too much of her actions and her accompanying words. She didn’t say he was a slob, she said he LOOKED like one at the moment. The implication being that if she wiped his face off, no one would make the mistake of thinking he was one. Overall it’s a pretty mild rebuke, in my mind.
Getting chocolate off a kid’s face (for me) is a priority from the standpoint of it getting all over other stuff and staining clothes and upholstery. I might use the appearance excuse (“let’s make your face look neater”), but in reality I’d be more worried about laundry challenges and stickiness. It’s a lot easier to get a little kid to cooperate using a quick excuse than to launch into an explanation about how hard it is to get chocolate out of a cotton shirt with its inherent focus on all the trouble he’d nearly caused. “Let’s clean your face up, you look goofy” (or however its worded) is just narration, not some statement revealing how wrapped up a parent might be in appearances.
As for me, I prefer that my son’s face isn’t filthy, but I let a lot of stuff go. I used to fuss more about his clothes and wanted him to look matched, if not well-turned-out, but that too is less of a priority now. Someone suggested to me once (gently) that I was trying to turn his clothes into some outward statement of what a good parent I was, and I realized both that they were right, and that this was misguided on my part. So I stopped. He’s his own person, and if he likes mismatched clothes that’s fine 98% of the time. I’d prefer his hair cut a different way, and feel pretty strongly it would look better, but he’s got an opinion about that too and I respect his wishes (to a point)
He doesn’t have any obvious birthmarks or defects, so that’s hard to answer. I assume you just get used to it. His teeth are a little wacky at the moment, but that comes with his age. (He’s 8).
Most of the boys in his grade are delightful little trainwrecks of too-short pants and too-big hoodies and gap-tooth grins and messy hair and I find it all pretty charming.
kids have to learn to take care of themselves and their ability to pull of a polished look w/o the help of an adult is limited. SO somedays my 8 yogirl runs the brush thru her short hair twice, spends 3 s on teeth, forgets to wipe off her mouth. Its her choice to sweater or not, she chooses shoes, when its below 50f with a wind chill the coat goes on or in the backpack.
Regarding calling the babe a slob, I know when they are babies lots of adults let adult language slip in, becasue the kids they think cannot comprehend. Well i do call bs on that, and prefer not to get in a funny turned derogatory name calling habit.
parents don’t need to try and get a laugh from other adults to cover up embarrassment for their kid.
This is why I hate to admit it – I know it is shallow. I have a very good friend who is albino. I know how his life has been – he is ok with it, and everyone who knows him is ok with it, but people stare. It is true that not all deformities can be fixed, but I would do what I could to make my childrens’ lives better. My son actually does have a cafe au lait type birthmark on his leg. It doesn’t bother any of us because it isn’t something that I would consider a deformity. It’s part of who he is – funny enough, he also has very inverted nipples. It is a source of pride that he “has no nipples” and we wouldn’t change that for the world, but a cleft lip? Yeh, we’d fix it, because it is fixable and it is something that would affect how others looked at/treated him. I admit I am a bit shallow when it comes to what I want for my kids. I don’t view other people in that way, as I don’t have to be the one to whom they cry when they are looked at funny or made fun of – if another person is happy with his/her world, I am happy with them. Understand that I am not talking about loving my child/children any less if they had been born with any type of defect, I am talking about if it could be fixed, fixing it to avoid the inevitable cruel children shit that can and does happen on playgrounds. I hope that helps clear up my view on it. And no, I didn’t feel like you were attacking – you have a very valid point, and I agree, but I admit I am somewhat shallow in that I want my kids to never deal with such petty shit as being made fun of because of having webbed feet or some other easily fixed deformity.
**FWIW, my husband has 2 deformed pinky fingers – they were fused together in utero, I still love him, and just usually don’t even think about it unless it comes up in conversation.
This thread is a bit of an eye-opener for me, because I rarely notice that my kids could use a bit of grooming. To me they’re always beautiful. Period. Messy hair, messy faces, mismatched clothing (i.e., a typical day) they’re stunning, in my eyes.
My family, on the other hand, was horrified that to see photographs of them singing karaoke (“Old MacDonald”) at a local festival looking like thisand this (it was like 150 degrees out). All I saw was them being adorable.
Now, I DO notice when their peers are a bit unkempt.
I’m just a total hypocrite about my own children.
I hear you on the hair. My 8 year old has been insisting on wearing his longer, it is very thick and wavy and he puts gel on it so it’s sort of a, um, controlled einstein look. Windblown, I would say. Well actually, messy is what I would say and did.
Until one of his classmates’ moms referred to the work I must put in on his hair and so on so he would look so hip all the time. ahem Apparently my 8 year old is more up on these matters than I am. He is regarded by his peers as hip. Imagine that.
At least in my experience, the too short pants occurs because they are all shooting up without warning. The pants that fit last week may not fit this week and I might or might not notice of a monday morning madness.
I see nothing wrong with those pictures. Their clothes are appropriate, and they’re no more dirty than I’d expect kids their age to be at an outdoor function. And they ARE freakin’ adorable!
Fessie, those kids are adorable! And I can’t see a thing wrong with how they look. I mean, yeah, the t-shirt has a couple of spots on it and the hair could be brushed, but they’re not at church, they’re at a fair. They are completely appropriate for the event they’re at. What, should your little guy be dressed in this? And I’m sure your daughter would be lovely in this, but it’s not exactly fair attire. (Nava, all I can say is never let your SIL see heirloom boys’ outfits. They frequently have lace, and it’s never a good thing.)
Well, a cleft lip is different than a port wine stain. Of course cleft lips should be repaired, since they make it difficult to nurse, eat and drink. Which is why it’s always fixed in this country, and why there are medical charities who search out children with cleft lips in third-world countries. There’s a spectrum of things that are superficial vs. serious, fixable vs. permanent. I understand your feelings, and I think everyone would want to fix something that can be easily repaired, but it becomes a real problem when people start getting obsessed with getting rid of unfixable things, particularly minor ones that only impact appearance. And I do take real issue with the phrase “we want more for our kids”–as if some people want less for their children, or, worse, as if having a PWS makes you less and dooms you to misery unless it can be fixed. We need less shallowness in the world, not more.
I understand what you mean, I suppose I should clarify that statement – we want more than we lived with for our kids. I know most parents do, but I also know many who do not. I grew up poor as fuck, we didn’t have indoor plumbing for a couple of years. I wore hand-me-down clothes that looked handed down, while my mother worked her ass off to make sure my sister had all name-brand clothes. Long story on that one, but the end result is this: my kids always look as if we have more money than we do by way of their clothing. It’s not because I want them to be snobs, it’s because of all the things that kids will make fun of, I want to minimise those reasons towards my children.
I know I can’t be the Catcher in the Rye – heck, when Sterling was 7 some little fat girls up the road made fun of her for being “too skinny.” FTR, at the time, she was right in the middle for height/weight for her age group. Kids are just cruel and hurtful, but if I can help mine avoid some of the BS, then I will.
Another part of it is that for a long time, when I was so heavy, I just didn’t care about my own appearance. That’s an ugly world in which to live. I want my kids to take pride in themselves and their appearance, so I have always encouraged nice clothes, clean skin & nails and neat hair. Not to mention my kids, both blond, have the greatest hair and I always enjoy fixing it for them!
Long story shorter, I know it may be a failing in me to be shallow, but it is how I am. I feel that while I encourage them to be concerned about their own looks, I also discourage the type behaviour that discriminates against other kids, so I am trying to remind them that the only person for whom they have any responsibility as regards actions, reactions, dress or abilities is themself. I had a run-in with my daughter’s cheerleading coach at one point (one of the reasons she chose to drop cheerleading) over her “hanging out with the wrong type” – in other words, she was friends with pretty much everyone, regardless of race, parental finances, sexual orientation or religion – not the typical cheerleader. My kids pick their friends by means of personality, not superficiality.
Gods, sorry everyone for hijacking. I will shaddup now.
Kids are supposed to wear out their clothes, so they are usually going to be dressed in a bizarre mix of “worn-out” and “favorite t-shirt with the orange sweat pants that Grandma gave you for your birthday”. But who cares? And it gives them practice with decision-making.
Then they become teen-agers and start criticizing what I wear. Twelve years ago, she was wearing green Ninja Turtle shorts and a purple sweatshirt. Now, it’s “Daddy, you are not wearing that if you want to be seen with me.”
you are so right about that!
(Nava, all I can say is never let your SIL see heirloom boys’ outfits. They frequently have lace, and it’s never a good thing.)