# How conservative are the conservatives?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 28, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605 "2011-12-28T05:34:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/41 "2011-12-31T06:16:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> Most conservatives do not fight against birth control, nor do they take part in “slut shaming”, whatever that is. You’re taking the actions of a few lunatic religious whackos and painting them with a really big brush across all conservatives.
The lunatic fringe sure must be overrepresented, given how many states do “abstinence only” education and how even Obama is afraid to take on the anti-emergency-contraception assholes.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/42 "2011-12-31T06:38:05Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#):
>
> The lunatic fringe sure must be overrepresented, given how many states do “abstinence only” education
How many is that? And what does that have to do with whether or not birth control is legal? Would you plant the goalposts firmly in the ground? You’re making me dizzy.
> [@](#):
>
> and how even Obama is afraid to take on the anti-emergency-contraception assholes.
Obama is a big boy. If he’s intimidated by his political adversaries, then he doesn’t belong in the presidency.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/43 "2011-12-31T07:16:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Yes, they are opposites. Faith is the rejection of reason, reason is the rejection of faith.
What happens when I lose my faith in reason?
No, never mind. Can you move the creationism hijack elsewhere?
This is about John Mace looking at a (strawmannish) list of GOP demands and saying, “Oh, we had that forty years ago, it’ll be fine,” and when it’s pointed out that they are in fact mostly not what we had, saying, “Oh, they aren’t really GOP demands.” Well, that’s not what you said at first, John.
So, if they were real GOP demands, would you be fine with them, John?
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### Author:  [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/44 "2011-12-31T09:13:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> How many is that? And what does that have to do with whether or not birth control is legal? Would you plant the goalposts firmly in the ground? You’re making me dizzy.
Fully half of the 50 states ( [Michigan gives out $1.4 million in abstinence-only education grants - The Michigan Messenger](http://michiganmessenger.com/11317/michigan-gives-out-14-million-in-abstinence-only-education-grants) ), and it obviously has everything to do with the quoted assertion that conservatives “fight against birth control.” The only thing that should be making you dizzy is falling down in terror at the consequences of your own beliefs–unplanned pregnancies, abortions, unwanted children, and teachers legally required to stick their fingers in their ears and scream whenever someone asks about ways to avoid those things.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/45 "2011-12-31T17:24:47Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#):
>
> Fully half of the 50 states ( [Michigan gives out $1.4 million in abstinence-only education grants - The Michigan Messenger](http://michiganmessenger.com/11317/michigan-gives-out-14-million-in-abstinence-only-education-grants) )…
Nope. Your cite is 3 years old. The feds had been dangling $$ in front of states since the mid 1990s to encourage abstinence only sex ed. After your 3-year-old cite was written, Obama cut most of that that funding from the budget.
When you dig up a current cite, you will find that the trend is away from abstinence only.
Keep digging.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/46 "2011-12-31T17:29:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Nope. Your cite is 3 years old. The feds had been dangling $$ in front of states since the mid 1990s to encourage abstinence only sex ed. After your 3-year-old cite was written, Obama cut most of that that funding from the budget.
>
> When you dig up a current cite, you will find that the trend is away from abstinence only.
>
> Keep digging.
Wait, your argument against the idea that conservatives are against birth control, is that when Democrats took over, they ended conservative programs that were against birth control.
Dude.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/47 "2011-12-31T17:34:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> Wait, your argument against the idea that conservatives are against birth control, is that when Democrats took over, they ended conservative programs that were against birth control.
>
> Dude.
No, that is not my argument. Read post #41.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/48 "2011-12-31T17:41:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> No, that is not my argument.
CR stated that abstinence only education is wide spread.
You asked how wide spread.
He showed you.
You objected, saying that Obama has cut funding, so now it is less wide spread.
None of that undercuts the idea that conservatives are for abstinence only education. Which is, in my opinion, anti-contraception. Since they don’t want teens to even understand how contraception works, it’s obvious they are trying to keep teens from using it.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/49 "2011-12-31T17:46:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> CR stated that abstinence only education is wide spread.
>
> You asked how wide spread.
>
> He showed you.
>
> You objected, saying that Obama has cut funding, so now it is less wide spread.
> None of that undercuts the idea that conservatives are for abstinence only education. Which is, in my opinion, anti-contraception. Since they don’t want teens to even understand how contraception works, it’s obvious they are trying to keep teens from using it.
Nope. He claimed that it was widespread because ultra conservatives were over-represented. He tried to prove it with a 3 year old cite. A cite which predates the termination of much federal funding for said programs. The mere fact the federal funding has been cut (after about 15 years of steady funding) is an indication that those ultraconservatives’ influence is waning. If he can find a recent cite that shows that abstinence only programs are not waning accordingly, then he may have proven his point. I’ll wait for such a cite.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/50 "2011-12-31T17:52:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Nope. He claimed that it was widespread because ultra conservatives were over-represented. He tried to prove it with a 3 year old cite. A cite which predates the termination of much federal funding for said programs. The mere fact the federal funding has been cut (after about 15 years of steady funding) is an indication that those ultraconservatives’ influence is waning. If he can find a recent cite that shows that abstinence only programs are not waning accordingly, then he may have proven his point. I’ll wait for such a cite.
You think that the ultraconservative influence in the GOP is waning?
In any case, as I said earlier, a different cite would only show that a Democrat president is in power. It does nothing to show that ultra-conservatives aren’t in charge of the GOP. Watch a debate and listen to the rhetoric to see if ultra-conservatives are dictating the GOP now. Look at the Republican house’s list of bills. Those are reasonable metrics, how many states are easing off of abstinence only education isn’t something that would indicate it, since Obama is taking the pressure off.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/51 "2011-12-31T18:00:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> You think that the ultraconservative influence in the GOP is waning?
I think that, as **CR** was trying to argue, that “fighting against the legality of birth control” is not part of the GOP party platform.
But since **CR** is moving goal posts like there is no tomorrow, I’m not too surprised that you are having trouble following along. Once again, I would suggest you read post #41. Then go back and read the OP, which quoted your post thusly:
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> The Republican platform would cripple America far better than any army.
>
> No birth control…
Factually incorrect, but grabbed onto by **CR** like a dog onto a bone.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/52 "2011-12-31T21:41:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> Most conservatives do not fight against birth control…
Don’t most conservatives insist that life begins at conception, and all life must be protected? Do you know how birth control pills work?
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### Author:  [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/53 "2011-12-31T23:57:10Z")
If personhood amendments are any indication, I’d say conservatives are getting crazier and more extreme and show no sign that they’re going to listen to reason anytime soon. There are implications with this that would certainly make some types of birth control, and Plan B type meds illegal. So yeah, I’d say that’s a strike against birth control.
> **[Personhood Amendments: Coming to a Ballot Near You? (Map)](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/personhood-amendments-state-map/)**
>
> The Mississippi battle is over for now, but voters in other states may soon confront a radical anti-abortion agenda.
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### Author:  [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/54 "2012-01-01T00:05:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Don’t most conservatives insist that life begins at conception, and all life must be protected? Do you know how birth control pills work?
Actually no, I know very few people (much less conservatives) who know how birth control works.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-conservative-are-the-conservatives/607605/55 "2012-01-01T00:12:08Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#):
>
> Actually no, I know very few people (much less conservatives) who know how birth control works.
Pills. Birth control pills. I know how they work, and they are not consistent with protecting life from the moment of conception. I can only conclude that conservatives who hold that view of the beginning of life are against birth control pills.
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