# How contaminated ARE turkeys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698 "2014-11-15T16:02:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/1 "2014-11-15T16:02:42Z")
From an article: > [@](#): > > Old pathogens have gotten stronger and new ones have emerged. I’ve read enough on the subject to have a healthy respect for these microbes. Cooking your stuffing outside the turkey is the safest and best way to go in 2013. My mom always stuffed her turkeys. I’ve always stuffed my turkeys. No one ever got sick. Of course, I grew up in a time when your mom would wrap your bologna-with-mayo sandwich in waxed paper, and it would sit in the cupboard at the elementary school until lunchtime. Maybe we were better equipped to fight off pathogens. So how contaminated _are_ turkeys? Assuming it has been properly stored, what are the odds of picking up a turkey that will contaminate the stuffing and make you sick? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/2 "2014-11-15T16:04:28Z")
Might I ask where that article was from? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/3 "2014-11-15T16:09:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Might I ask where that article was from? [From here](https://www.yahoo.com/food/turkey-stuffing-to-stuff-or-not-102373195224.html). I didn’t link it though, because ‘common wisdom’ today seems to be that if you stuff your turkey you’re almost guaranteed to have a very brown time – or worse – in a couple of hours. Alton Brown has been advocating un-stuffed turkeys for years (decades?), and every year I hear warnings against stuffed turkeys online and on the news. It seems to be very widespread. I know that meat can contain pathogens. I know that if the pathogens aren’t killed by cooking, they can be dangerous. I know that juices will carry them into the stuffing, which may not become hot enough to kill them. OTOH, ISTM that meat processing is probably much cleaner today than it was decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/77aa72/32.png) [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluffy_PickleSniffer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/4 "2014-11-15T16:13:48Z")
We’ve always stuffed turkeys and never had anyone get sick over all the years. Here’s an article with some advice on “safe stuffing” - might help: [linky](http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/bltrkeyd.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/5 "2014-11-15T16:37:16Z")
> [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](#): > > We’ve always stuffed turkeys and never had anyone get sick over all the years. Here’s an article with some advice on “safe stuffing” - might help: > [linky](http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/bltrkeyd.htm) What I’m actually asking is how many turkeys are contaminated in the first place, that it seems such a concern today. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/6 "2014-11-15T16:40:26Z")
As I understand it, the big problem is that the stuff in the cavity of the turkey won’t reach the proper temperature to kill harmful bacteria before the rest of the bird does. It’s also my understanding that the brining solutions injected into frozen turkeys these days cause the meat to cook faster (and if you brine your turkey yourself, even faster still), thus making it even likelier that your bird will be fully cooked before the stuffing is comparable to turkeys of days past (and it seems to me that it was far more common in the past to overcook meat, as well). So maybe the issue isn’t that we’re less equipped to deal with foodborne pathogens, or that there’s more pathogens in the first place, but that the food itself, and our methods of preparing it, have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/7 "2014-11-15T16:42:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So maybe the issue isn’t that we’re less equipped to deal with foodborne pathogens, or that there’s more pathogens in the first place, but that the food itself, and our methods of preparing it, have changed. A food-borne pathogen won’t make you sick if there are none in the food. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/8 "2014-11-15T16:47:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > A food-borne pathogen won’t make you sick if there are none in the food. Nor will it if you keep the turkey in there for six hours until it’s dry and flavorless like the ones your grandma used to cook. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/9 "2014-11-15T16:52:00Z")
The article says, “no one ever got sick” from undercooked stuffing in the days of stuffed turkeys. How does the author know that’s the case? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/10 "2014-11-15T16:55:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Nor will it if you keep the turkey in there for six hours until it’s dry and flavorless like the ones your grandma used to cook. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The article says, “no one ever got sick” from undercooked stuffing in the days of stuffed turkeys. How does the author know that’s the case? There’s no disputing that pathogens exist, and that people have become ill from eating undercooked meat, or stuffing that was cooked within a contaminated bird and did not reach the required temperature. I seem to be having trouble framing my question. What I’m looking for is something like this: > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What I’m actually asking is how many turkeys are contaminated in the first place, that it seems such a concern today. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/11 "2014-11-15T16:58:05Z")
If you are worried about this, you have already lived such a sterile life in thoroughly clean surroundings, that you have not developed any antibodies against anything, so you are at very high risk. The rest of us, who have eaten dirt all our lives, are immune to nearly everything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/12 "2014-11-15T17:00:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What I’m actually asking is how many turkeys are contaminated in the first place, that it seems such a concern today. I’m no food scientist, but when I was in the restaurant business we were taught to treat _every_ piece of meat as potentially contaminated, because as far as you know, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/13 "2014-11-15T17:08:37Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > If you are worried about this, you have already lived such a sterile life in thoroughly clean surroundings, that you have not developed any antibodies against anything, so you are at very high risk. The rest of us, who have eaten dirt all our lives, are immune to nearly everything. Go back and read the OP. ISTR indicating that I disregard the recent warnings. Let me try to make my question more understandable. Some pigs carry _Trichinella spiralis_, which causes trichinosis. If _T. spiralis_ isn’t killed by thorough cooking, it can infect the eater. But not all pigs carry the parasite. As meat processing practices have evolved, the risk has lessened to the point where some foodies advocate ‘medium rare’ pork. Chickens, like turkeys, can carry dangerous bacteria. Yet like pork, some people are saying it’s perfectly OK to eat under-done chicken. To me, this says that meat-handling practices have reduce the percentage of contaminated carcasses. But this does not seem to be the case with turkey. So the question is: What percentage of commercially distributed turkeys _are_ contaminated? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/14 "2014-11-15T17:12:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I seem to be having trouble framing my question. What I’m looking for is something like this: > [QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] > What I’m actually asking is how many turkeys are contaminated in the first place, that it seems such a concern today. [/QUOTE] Oh, you want stuffing recipes. [Why didn’t you say so](https://www.cspinet.org/new/contaminated_turkeys.html)? > [@](#): > > U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) tests in turkey slaughter plants showed that 13% of turkeys are contaminated with Salmonella bacteria. In 2001, the USDA collected over 2,200 turkey samples from some 45 plants. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that Salmonella in food is responsible for 1.3 million illnesses, 15,000 hospitalizations, and over 500 deaths a year. That’s pretty old, though. Ooh, [here’s a newer one](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/fsis-content/internet/main/topics/data-collection-and-reports/microbiology/annual-progress-reports): > [@](#): > > In calendar year 2013, FSIS analyzed 31,374 verification samples across six meat and poultry product classes with the following percent positive rate of Salmonella per product class: young chicken (3.9%), steer/heifer (0.0%), ground beef (1.6%), ground chicken (18.0%), **ground turkey (15.0%) and turkey (2.3%)** ETA: I just searched for salmonella. If there are other significant pathogens, those numbers could go up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/15 "2014-11-15T17:20:59Z")
> [@](#): > > In calendar year 2013, FSIS analyzed 31,374 verification samples across six meat and poultry product classes with the following percent positive rate of Salmonella per product class: young chicken (3.9%), steer/heifer (0.0%), ground beef (1.6%), ground chicken (18.0%), ground turkey (15.0%) and **turkey (2.3%)** Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/16 "2014-11-15T19:46:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > To me, this says that meat-handling practices have reduce the percentage of contaminated carcasses. But this does not seem to be the case with turkey. So the question is: What percentage of commercially distributed turkeys _are_ contaminated? The answer still lies in the antibodies of the consumer. If a tribesman from the Amazon is given a piece of undercooked American turkey, he might be virtually certain of entertaining pathogens that he has no antibodies to protect him from. So, in that sense, 100% of turkeys are contaminated, but 100% of targeted consumers have defensive antibodies against them. On the other hand, he never gets sick from his drinking water, but I would. In my kitchen I go weeks without even wiping off the cutting board. I never get sick, but if you ate at my house, you probably would. So is my cutting board contaminated, or not? ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/17 "2014-11-15T21:32:11Z")
There are also spore forming bacteria to worry about, such as \*Bacillus cereus \*and \*Clostridium perfringens. \*Those are a lot tougher than salmonella. _B. cereus_ is more likely to be in starchy foods like rice and cereal grains. _C. perfringens_ from interstinal contamination from the bird. _E. coli_ and _Salmonella sp_. get the huge concern, but the others, plus Campylobacter, can make you wish you could die. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/18 "2014-11-15T21:58:37Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The answer still lies in the antibodies of the consumer. If a tribesman from the Amazon is given a piece of undercooked American turkey, he might be virtually certain of entertaining pathogens that he has no antibodies to protect him from. So, in that sense, 100% of turkeys are contaminated, but 100% of targeted consumers have defensive antibodies against them. On the other hand, he never gets sick from his drinking water, but I would. I don’t have the time or energy to tackle this fully, but I will trot out my dusty old microbiology degree long enough to say this is a highly oversimplistic - and largely incorrect - view. For starters, you don’t really have a lot of long-term memory antibodies floating around your digestive system. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/19 "2014-11-15T22:12:42Z")
I am not sure if this will be viewable without a login but America’s Test Kitchen does a really interesting take on cooking turkey that solves the issue with stuffing and yumminess: > **[Revisiting Julia Child’s Roast Turkey | America's Test Kitchen](https://www.americastestkitchen.com/episode/413-revisiting-julia-childs-roast-turkey)** > > Test cook Julia Collin Davison uncovers the secrets > to Julia Child’s Thanksgiving Turkey and serves it with > a perfect recipe for Roasted Root Vegetables. Then, > gadget expert Lisa McManus reviews her favorite tools > for making turkey. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/20 "2014-11-15T23:11:13Z")
There is a turkey farm here, and there was also an all-turkey restaurant that cooked and served 100 turkeys a day from that farm. A buffet, like Thanksgiving dinner all year round, extremely popular. In the last 10 years there were several cases of salmonella connected with it, though the number of cases dropped a little due to vigorous cleaning, handling of food, experts brought in to try to keep on top of it. The restaurant tried everything possible, and people were still getting sick, so it finally closed, much to the distress of all the big eaters who loved the place. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698.md?page=2)