# How contaminated ARE turkeys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698 "2014-11-15T16:02:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/21 "2014-11-16T05:13:04Z")
Is salmonella (and/or the other bugs we’re afraid of) killed by freezing? These days an awful lot of us buy frozen turkeys. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/22 "2014-11-16T20:46:10Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Is salmonella (and/or the other bugs we’re afraid of) killed by freezing? [No](http://www.salmonella.org/faq.html#q26). Slows growth but does not kill them. > [@salinqmind](#): > > There is a turkey farm here, and there was also an all-turkey restaurant that cooked and served 100 turkeys a day from that farm. A buffet, like Thanksgiving dinner all year round, extremely popular. In the last 10 years there were several cases of salmonella connected with it, though the number of cases dropped a little due to vigorous cleaning, handling of food, experts brought in to try to keep on top of it. The restaurant tried everything possible, and people were still getting sick, so it finally closed, much to the distress of all the big eaters who loved the place. Interesting anecdote but applies only to a single restaurant that used a single farm. This can’t be used to characterize what is typical/average or what the consumer would expect when buying a brand-name turkey from a supermarket. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/23 "2014-11-16T21:06:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not sure if this will be viewable without a login but America’s Test Kitchen does a really interesting take on cooking turkey that solves the issue with stuffing and yumminess: > > [Revisiting Julia Child’s Roast Turkey | America's Test Kitchen](http://www.americastestkitchen.com/episode/413-revisiting-julia-childs-roast-turkey) OK now I am **HUNGRY**. Gonna have to roast up a bird to Julia’s recipe. The Late Show style opening is pretty hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/24 "2014-11-17T00:25:19Z")
I just have to soapbox Stuffing in the bird is one of those small things that makes life worth living. I get very upset when people take that away. All chicken dinners (and Thanksgiving dinners) in the Olds household have in-bird stuffing. Mrs. Olds has a few tricks intended to reduce risk, but they can pry my delicious in bird stuffing from my cold dead hands. Occasionally I can see a guest is uncomfortable with the in-bird stuffing. I berate and belittle them (Ok, I’m not really that much of a jerk. I only do that to my in-laws, but that’s because I don’t really like them) FWIW, I am a biologist and Mrs. Olds is a chemist by training. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/25 "2014-11-17T13:14:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As I understand it, the big problem is that the stuff in the cavity of the turkey won’t reach the proper temperature to kill harmful bacteria before the rest of the bird does. You could say the same thing about _any_ part of the turkey not directly exposed to the heat source. The issue isn’t whether the stuffing reaches the proper bacteria-killing temperature _before_ the rest of the bird (which would be physically impossible, barring some bizarro recipe where you cook the bird by sticking an immersion heater into the cavity). Rather, it’s whether the stuffing reaches this temperature at all (and also, as the OP notes, whether the bacteria are present in the first place). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/26 "2014-11-17T13:48:48Z")
Again this year I will be stuffing our turkey. We have the bird ordered and it will be killed/prepared according to the local farm’s schedule. Haven’t had a problem from their birds yet, and we eat a lot of fresh turkey. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/27 "2014-11-17T14:42:53Z")
Just be sure that it had its flue jabs: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11235636/Bird-flu-outbreak-Christmas-turkeys-threatened-by-disease.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11235636/Bird-flu-outbreak-Christmas-turkeys-threatened-by-disease.html) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/28 "2014-11-17T16:28:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m no food scientist, but when I was in the restaurant business we were taught to treat _every_ piece of meat as potentially contaminated, because as far as you know, it is. I think that’s really the telling point- the seriousness of getting sick from the big food-borne illnesses (salmonella, listeria, e-coli, campylobacter, etc…) is high enough that it’s not worth risking it, even though the chance is pretty small that you’ll actually get sick. So maybe there’s not _more_ contamination, but rather that we recognize it for what it is now, and there’s an easy way to avoid that illness, so that’s what they suggest. But chances are that the vast majority of people who stuff their birds will come out just fine- it’s not like there was a rash of post-Thankgiving diarrhea and ER visits because of serious food-borne illness in years past. (or maybe there was, and we just don’t realize it, not being epidemiologists and all?) ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/29 "2014-11-17T17:02:59Z")
My former butcher (he retired) used to swear by having the spine removed from turkeys and chickens especially if you planned to smoke them. He claimed that the source of most contamination in fowl was in the spinal cord. He also pointed out that the sawing out the spine would allow the turkey to be cooked in a butterfly position so the meat would cook evenly and quicker. I smoked a few of his spineless turkeys and had some very delicious meat. The presentation sucked of course (flat turkey just doesn’t look as festive as one that is whole) and the stuffing had to be made outside of the turkey, but hey, good eats. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/30 "2014-11-17T17:36:12Z")
Speaking of Good Eats, Alton Brown broke down and did a show that included [cooking the stuffing in the turkey](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYz3PXOfMtg&safe=active). Of course, the stuffing is essentially cooked before it’s inserted, but that’s standard. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/31 "2014-11-17T18:22:44Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Occasionally I can see a guest is uncomfortable with the in-bird stuffing. I berate and belittle them The _proper_ solution to this is to have so much stuffing it won’t all fit in the bird, and you have to cook some of it in a casserole pan. As a side benefit, they don’t eat your stuffed stuffing. Win! ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/32 "2014-11-17T18:49:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … ISTM that meat processing is probably much cleaner today than it was decades ago. Overcrowded factory-farm conditions are more prevalent now than decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/33 "2014-11-17T18:57:47Z")
If you cook a turkey to at least 165[sup]o[/sup], you won’t have any problems. The stuffing is the best part. It doesn’t have to be cooked until it’s dried out; it has to be cooked until it’s done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/34 "2014-11-17T19:29:16Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > My former butcher (he retired) used to swear by having the spine removed from turkeys and chickens especially if you planned to smoke them. He claimed that the source of most contamination in fowl was in the spinal cord. > He also pointed out that the sawing out the spine would allow the turkey to be cooked in a butterfly position so the meat would cook evenly and quicker. > I smoked a few of his spineless turkeys and had some very delicious meat. The presentation sucked of course (flat turkey just doesn’t look as festive as one that is whole) and the stuffing had to be made outside of the turkey, but hey, good eats. When I smoke a turkey, it’s unstuffed and cavity-downward over the pan of boiling water (in a water smoker), so much of the heat is going into the flesh of the bird through the cavity space. Cooks plenty fast, as long as it was thawed first (and brined, in my recipe). Never had a contamination problem leaving in assorted CNS tissue in the bird. As to roasting, we also roast “unstuffed”. No bread dressing in there. Instead, we use cut citrus fruit (lemons, oranges, maybe limes) and stalks of celery. The meat, and the gravy, is kind of citrusy and slightly tangy, but we like that. And the bird’s cavity isn’t packed full (lots of little gaps around the pieces) so I think heat gets in pretty well, and no one is eating the citrus or celery afterward anyway. That said, I’ve never had a bad experience with dressing in a roasted bird. I wouldn’t deny that it could happen, only saying it hasn’t happened to my family yet. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/35 "2014-11-17T20:07:26Z")
The key thing about all the advice about not cooking stuffing in the bird is that it’s directed at a nation of cooks who prepare only a few real meals per year. Stories are legion of folks calling the “turkey hotline” asking how many minutes to cook a frozen 20# bird, and being aghast when told it can’t be done today. So the advice to not cook stuffing in the bird is directed at the rank and file US cook who can barely roast a fully defrosted unstuffed bird safely. Much less stuff and cook a previously frozen bird to be done at a preselected time of day. In any situation, good advice for the incompetent is different from good advice for the expert. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698/36 "2014-11-17T22:22:15Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > My former butcher (he retired) used to swear by having the spine removed from turkeys and chickens especially if you planned to smoke them. He claimed that the source of most contamination in fowl was in the spinal cord. That’s just complete nonsense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-contaminated-are-turkeys/704698.md?page=1)