# How Could Denmark 'Also' Be A Monarchy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 27, 2022, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640 "2022-07-27T11:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/1 "2022-07-27T11:05:41Z")
I just know, two facts. Denmark is clearly one of the most liberal countries, culturally and politically, in the world. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) is the Wikipedia article. I’m not going to read the whole article for you or to you. But I think you’ll agree it shows that (look especially on the sections titled _Culture_ and _Human Rights_). But it is also a constitutional monarchy. To me the two would seem to conflict. So do they? I realize the monarch clearly has little or few powers. But still, you have to admit a clear conflict of interest. Why, I mean, haven’t they declared themselves a republic now? Another thing in the Wikipedia article that I found odd and perhaps ironic: _Christianity is the dominant religion in Denmark. In January 2020, 74.3%[189] of the population of Denmark were members of the Church of Denmark (Den Danske Folkekirke), the officially established church_. The US constitution forbids an establishment of religion. How could, if nothing else, a so culturally liberal country like Denmark at the same time have no problem with it? I mean, some people in the US, who even call themselves conservative, are proud of our separation of church and state. This one frankly has me even more confused. Thoughts 🙂 ? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/2 "2022-07-27T11:09:43Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > But still, you have to admit a clear conflict of interest. Care to explain why you think this? There’s nothing _clear_ about it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/3 "2022-07-27T11:31:08Z")
Modern, liberal democracies that are also monarchies: - All the Commonwealth realms, including Australia, Canada, Jamaica, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom - Andorra - Belgium - Luxembourg - Norway - Spain - Sweden ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/4 "2022-07-27T11:37:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Modern, liberal democracies that are also monarchies Now, I wouldn’t call the UK that liberal _per se_. Also, historically monarchies have been considered obstacles to things like democracy, and even freedom. Furthermore, royal families typically are wealthy. How do you explain _that_, even in a democratic socialism state? ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/5 "2022-07-27T11:40:48Z")
Almost every country is proud of its cultural history and heritage. And for most modern liberal monarchies, the main purpose of the monarchy is to represent that cultural history and heritage, usually as an embodiment of the idea. I’m sure Queen Margrethe II is a fine woman and an excellent grandmother. I’m equally sure that Denmark has hundreds of thousands of excellent and fine grandmothers. What sets her apart is that she has a duty to represent Danish heritage and values. So long as she and her heirs do so, the monarchy will be maintained. It has almost nothing to do with how liberal Denmark’s political policies are. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/6 "2022-07-27T11:43:02Z")
I think these are rather interesting questions. On a broader level, we’re talking about things that distinguish European cultures. They tend to have a long history, with a more-or-less established culture (language, etc.) and religion in place over a long period of time. So, you get the retention of emotionally resonant, community-cohering institutions, like monarchies (at least on paper) and state-affiliated churches. But, for many reasons, including a head start on industry (fueled in great part by colonial exploitation abroad, including slavery) and thus wealth and thus the leisure time to philosophize about the Rights of Man, and to eventually play soccer and smoke weed and produce great art and literature and complex, beautiful music… …you get liberal/progressive cultures, and semi-socialized economies… Long story short: you have people who can afford to be progressive and well educated (and appreciative of other cultures, since they’re close by), but who cling to a few things from their deep, pre-Enlightenment histories. This is bound to lead to contradictions, like democratic governments holding the power, but monarchs as symbols or heads of state; and, less separation of church and state than the US has, yet many more open atheists (and fewer actual churchgoers) than in the US. You might instead ask “why are so many Americans so religious, despite their lack of a state-sponsored religion?” My high school social studies teacher explained it’s because association with the government is the kiss of death for many — “I considered joining a church, but then I found out it’s officially tied to our damned government, so forget it!” ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/7 "2022-07-27T11:47:09Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Now, I wouldn’t call the UK that liberal _per se_. Care to expand on why not? ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/8 "2022-07-27T11:48:24Z")
The monarchs are mostly a holdover from earlier eras, and are essentially powerless / symbolic in most Western countries. The important part is the way the legislative, executive and judicial powers are organised, and there are several ways to do that. Can you point to a republic that is obviously working better ? And is it working better because it doesn’t have a symbolic monarch, or because of that other stuff ? We had [a recent thread explaining parliamentary political systems](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-like-a-parliamentary-political-systems-for-americans-primer/967695). I suggest you have a look. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/9 "2022-07-27T12:31:21Z")
@SanVito Boris Johnson 😉 ? (I know he’s out, but just recently. Consider that. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/10 "2022-07-27T12:33:51Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Now, I wouldn’t call the UK that liberal _per se_. You are confusing two different connotations of the word “liberal.” The United Kingdom is a liberal democracy. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/11 "2022-07-27T12:36:56Z")
In the western monarchies, the king/queen is head of state, but not head of government. It’s an important difference. The US has one person whose both – the president – so Americans don’t see it. But the head of state is the one who handles ceremonial duties, like opening a new park. They have no political power, but allow the head of government to concentrate on governing instead of dealing with ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/12 "2022-07-27T12:38:06Z")
Boris Johnson, may he rot in hell, is a lying populist bastard. He is also, however, a socially-liberal libertarian who is not a practising Christian, believes in tackling climate change and was walking in London Pride parades wearing a pink stetson over ten years ago. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/13 "2022-07-27T13:14:22Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Also, historically monarchies have been considered obstacles to things like democracy, and even freedom. Furthermore, royal families typically are wealthy. How do you explain _that_, even in a democratic socialism state? Inertia and tradition. It’s a very close parallel to the US, initially a shiny new model of democracy with forward thinking statesmen forging a compromise constitution they thought would be amended as needed, just as they did 12 times in the first decade+, turning into a morass of conservatism shackled by veneration of those statesmen as The Founding Fathers and the compromise constitution and those initial amendments as a holy text. Replacing the royals with a president (or whatever) has always seemed like an unnecessary step to most\* and a step that would diminish the nation to many. And social democracies allow some people to be rich, few people want complete equality of wealth. \*A fraction that has likely increased in the last 5 years. (I can’t find systematic statistics on the question. At least not for Norway.) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/14 "2022-07-27T13:19:54Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Furthermore, royal families typically are wealthy. How do you explain _that_, even in a democratic socialism state? What ‘democratic socialism states’ are we talking about? Most western European countries are liberal democracies, with some elements of socialism, but they are not socialist. People are allowed to make money. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/15 "2022-07-27T13:22:35Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Also, historically monarchies have been considered obstacles to things like democracy, and even freedom. Furthermore, royal families typically are wealthy. How do you explain _that_, even in a democratic socialism state? Note that in the 2020 study of social mobility by the World Economic Forum, Denmark ranks #1 in the world. Note also that in the top 10 counttries, six of the 10 are monarchies. > **[Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/)** > > Ranked: The Social Mobility of 82 Countries It’s an unfortunate truth that a person’s opportunities can be partially tethered to their socioeconomic status at birth. Although winning or losing the “birth lottery” will continue to shape the lives of... ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/16 "2022-07-27T13:45:53Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I just know, two facts. Denmark is clearly one of the most liberal countries, culturally and politically, in the world. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) is the Wikipedia article. I’m not going to read the whole article for you or to you. But I think you’ll agree it shows that (look especially on the sections titled _Culture_ and _Human Rights_). But it is also a constitutional monarchy. To me the two would seem to conflict. So do they? Nah, there’s nothing inherently illiberal about constitutional monarchies. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/17 "2022-07-27T14:13:27Z")
I live in a fairly liberal democracy, and yet we have the following monarchs: ``` The AmaXhosa (Eastern Cape) King Zwelonke Sigcawu The AmaZulu (KwaZulu-Natal) King Misuzulu Zwelithini The AbaThembu (Eastern Cape) King Buyelekhaya Dalindyebo The VhaVenda (Limpopo) King Toni Mphephu Ramabulana The AmaNdebele (Mpumalanga) King Makhosonke Enoch Mabena The AmaMpondo (Eastern Cape) King Zanozuko Tyelovuyo Sigcau The Bapedi ba Maroteng (Limpopo) King Thulare Victor Thulare ``` ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/18 "2022-07-27T15:08:38Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > What ‘democratic socialism states’ are we talking about? Most western European countries are liberal democracies, with some elements of socialism, but they are not socialist. People are allowed to make money. Your definition of socialism is very different from mine. You imply socialism is some sort of Communism, whereas I see it as a democracy where we have e.g. Universal Health Care. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/19 "2022-07-27T15:19:49Z")
Where would you rather be poor? The Kingdom of Sweden, or the Federal Republic of Somalia? Where would you rather be a political dissident? The Kingdom of the Belgians, or the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea? Where governance is concerned, form is far less important than function. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640/20 "2022-07-27T16:38:10Z")
My definition is that property and the means of production are held in common rather than private, with workers involved in the management of that production - that’s not true in most western democracies. Having social services funded by taxes like universal health care doesn’t make a country ‘socialist’. That would mean every country with a state funded school system was socialist. The UK is one of the only countries in the world that has true universal health care. I doubt anyone would call us a socialist country. As I said upthread, many European countries have elements of socialism (eg France has just nationalised their main domestic energy supplier), but most are also pretty capitalist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-denmark-also-be-a-monarchy/968640.md?page=2)