# How could gerrymandered districts be un-gerrymandered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391 "2012-11-08T19:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/221 "2013-12-30T21:09:17Z")
While I’m looking for a charity-giving study, I’ll point out that giving a small amount is not “nothing”. A meal for a child can be provided for very little money – less than a dollar per child – with smart management, and I don’t think providing a meal for a needy child is “nothing”. Helping a child avoid being hungry for a few hours is a nice, good, and valuable thing to do for society. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/222 "2013-12-30T21:12:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cuz I like to argue? You missed my point, didn’t you. If you get some kind of pleasure/satisfaction/warm fuzzies from an irrational act - all power to you, go ahead and do it. But if it is a chore, a hassle and irrational, then people don’t (and really shouldn’t) do it. Human nature. So your answer is that you get warm and fuzzy expending energy on telling us why you don’t vote and don’t hand out money to charity and all that? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/223 "2013-12-30T21:14:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > While I’m looking for a charity-giving study, I’ll point out that giving a small amount is not “nothing”. A meal for a child can be provided for very little money – less than a dollar per child – with smart management, and I don’t think providing a meal for a needy child is “nothing”. Helping a child avoid being hungry for a few hours is a nice, good, and valuable thing to do for society. And ten people giving 1 dollar has the exact same impact as one person giving 10 dollars. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/224 "2013-12-30T21:15:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I get what you’re saying, but that’s not strictly true. Let’s say 1,000 people are represented by multiple seats. Whether the top vote-getting candidate gets 501 or 502 votes is irrelevant: that 502nd vote **counted** , but “did not affect [sic] the outcome” as **Terr** stated. Well, yes, since representation itself involves fractions, not every vote changes the outcome. That’s life. But alot more votes would change the outcome than in our current system. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/225 "2013-12-30T21:17:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As much as you have for your theory that a modern federal election can possibly be decided by one vote. You need to clarify whether you’re claiming that an election can’t ever end with a one-vote margin because you just don’t think it’s likely, or whether you’re claiming there will always be someone there to steal it through fraud. The former is simply false; the latter is not really part of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/226 "2013-12-30T21:19:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And all the other donations, when combined, without yours, add up to “alot”. So? What more need be said? Somehow a whole bunch of people with donations that you consider worthless ended up funding a huge charity. How’s that possible? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/227 "2013-12-30T21:19:37Z")
[Here](http://philanthropy.com/article/New-Research-Sheds-Light-on/62663/) is a discussion of a psychology and charity study at UT Dallas. Relevant portion: > [@](#): > > Rachel Croson, a professor at the University of Texas at Dallas, found that people who participated in a phone-athon for a local radio station gave a larger-than-average gift when they were told about a big gift a previous caller had made. So people gave more when they believed that the previous donor gave a large gift. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/228 "2013-12-30T21:20:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’re the one claiming that mysterious powers would intervene. I know of no rational or legal basis for what you’re claiming. Simple. There is a legal basis to order another recount. > [@](#): > > By the way, you seem to be insinuating that pre-modern federal elections were more honest. You can’t seriously believe that, can you? The total # of votes was way less, so the “fuzziness factor” was smaller. To the level of one ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/229 "2013-12-30T21:21:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > While I’m looking for a charity-giving study, I’ll point out that giving a small amount is not “nothing”. A meal for a child can be provided for very little money – less than a dollar per child And yet you were talking about “a quarter”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/230 "2013-12-30T21:23:11Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You need to clarify whether you’re claiming that an election can’t ever end with a one-vote margin because you just don’t think it’s likely, or whether you’re claiming there will always be someone there to steal it through fraud. No fraud is needed. The “fuzziness factor” is MUCH higher than one ballot. Think “hanging chads”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/231 "2013-12-30T21:24:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So people gave more when they believed that the previous donor **gave a large gift**. Is a quarter “a large gift”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/232 "2013-12-30T21:26:45Z")
[Here](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/charitable-giving-how-emotion-peer-pressure-influence-donations-1.2451910)’s another study, about charitable giving in Canada. It found that social pressure, including the giving habits of those around you, influenced the likelihood and amount of donations. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/233 "2013-12-30T21:28:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet you were talking about “a quarter”. A quarter can buy a healthy snack for a needy child. That’s a good, positive, and valuable thing to do for society. In addition, the studies I’ve linked to show that your giving habits can positively affect the giving habits of others. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/234 "2013-12-30T21:28:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Here](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/charitable-giving-how-emotion-peer-pressure-influence-donations-1.2451910)’s another study, about charitable giving in Canada. It found that social pressure, including the giving habits of those around you, influenced the likelihood and amount of donations. "“There are a number of empirical studies that suggest individuals do respond to peer pressure – they respond when there is a [charitable] norm,” says Devlin. We’re not talking about “norm”. We’re talking about your idea that you putting a quarter into the bucket will influence others to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/235 "2013-12-30T21:30:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In addition, the studies I’ve linked to show that your giving habits can positively affect the giving habits of others. First, you didn’t link to studies. You linked to some vague handwaving _about_ some studies. And second, the studies don’t say what you want them to say. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/236 "2013-12-30T21:32:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > "“There are a number of empirical studies that suggest individuals do respond to peer pressure – they respond when there is a [charitable] norm,” says Devlin. > > We’re not talking about “norm”. We’re talking about your idea that you putting a quarter into the bucket will influence others to do it. I shouldn’t have to prove it (though I very nearly have) – all I need to do is demonstrate that it’s a reasonable supposition. It takes no effort and very little material sacrifice to give a quarter to charity, and based on the discussions of studies I’ve linked to (as well as common sense understanding of human psychology) it’s very reasonable to suppose that giving even small amounts has a better-than-zero chance of stimulating someone else to give based on social pressure alone. In addition, even small gifts (like a quarter) can materially benefit society; by getting a snack to a needy child, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/237 "2013-12-30T21:39:38Z")
[Here](http://journal.sjdm.org/12/12115/jdm12115.pdf) is a direct link to a study that finds that peer pressure, in the form of donating in pairs rather than individually, increases the amount donated. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/238 "2013-12-30T21:44:16Z")
The UK government’s “[Giving White Paper](https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/78915/giving-white-paper2.pdf)” states: > [@](#): > > seeing others give is one of the most powerful drivers of further giving, and provides helpful information to other givers ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/239 "2013-12-30T22:06:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > First, you didn’t link to studies. You linked to some vague handwaving _about_ some studies. And second, the studies don’t say what you want them to say. In fairness, they’ve backed up their positions far better than you have. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/240 "2013-12-30T22:37:19Z")
Seems to me that groups like the Red Cross and the Salvation Army can do a lot of good with $100. I fail to see what difference it makes if it comes from one guy dropping a $100 bill or 400 people kicking in a quarter. If $100 is significant, than surely a quarter is 1/400 times as significant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391.md?page=13)