# How could gerrymandered districts be un-gerrymandered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391 "2012-11-08T19:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/161 "2013-12-27T22:05:54Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > You miss one important point, you never know that one vote won’t matter in the next election. Maybe it only affected one federal election up to now, but it might affect the next one. You also never know if you will win in a lottery. But you know what the probability is. And it is damn close to zero. The probability of one vote deciding a federal election is not even “close to zero”. It is exactly zero. Because we’re not in 1910 and no federal election even CAN be decided by one vote. As you pointed out yourself, after the dozen or so recounts it will just go to a revote. > [@](#): > > And, in that race I did (attempt) to influence others at work, neighborhood, whatever, because I did feel strongly about the candidate. You’re not talking about your individual vote then, are you? > [@](#): > > But if I do happen to care very much I will make the effort, and it usually means that the rest of my demographic has been energized. You are you. You are not “the rest of my demographic”. You don’t make decisions for the “rest of your demographic”. They don’t ask you how they should vote. You control exactly one vote. And that one vote doesn’t matter. Of course, if you control more than one vote, all power to you. At a few dozen votes or so, the probability of those changing the result of a federal election becomes non-zero (though still very small). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/162 "2013-12-28T03:58:27Z")
All votes are votes. All those “just one vote” votes add up to the whole body of votes, like peas in a pot. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/163 "2013-12-30T16:41:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > To be a vote that affects the outcome means that if you didn’t vote the outcome would be different. To be a vote that affects that outcome means that if you were the ONLY person who didn’t vote the outcome would be different. If you think democracy is useless unless you personally get to pick the winner of an election, you’re not getting democracy. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/164 "2013-12-30T16:43:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Never did. I don’t do futile gestures. Good. Luckily, there are lots of other people who think like you and don’t vote. This affects the outcome of elections, making the votes of those of us who do even more valuable. I wonder - when someone passes a hat around to collect some money for someone in need or whatever, do you also give nothing since your few bucks can’t accomplish anything for anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/165 "2013-12-30T16:50:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Good. > > Luckily, there are lots of other people who think like you and don’t vote. This affects the outcome of elections, making the votes of those of us who do even more valuable. ROTFLMAO. The Congressman in my district is Elijah Cummings. Starting with the most recent election and going back, that’s 75%, 78%, 98%, 73%, 74%, and 87%. Yes, my vote so so very valuable. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/166 "2013-12-30T17:06:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > ROTFLMAO. The Congressman in my district is Elijah Cummings. Starting with the most recent election and going back, that’s 75%, 78%, 98%, 73%, 74%, and 87%. Yes, my vote so so very valuable. You understand the principle of a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? But sure, if you can see the writing on the wall, showing up to vote isn’t very useful. But that’s just because you’re in the minority. Your vote isn’t supposed to mean anything when you lose an election, even if you don’t bother to try because you know you’ll lose. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/167 "2013-12-30T17:15:01Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You understand the principle of a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? You understand the concept of “My vote is one vote. Not two. Not a dozen. One”? You may get warm fuzzies from feeling like a part of some kind of voting bloc. I don’t. If voting gives you warm fuzzies then it makes sense to vote - people get pleasure/satisfaction in weirder ways. Voting, knowing that my one vote (see the above paragraph) has no chance of making any difference whatsoever, does not pleasure or satisfy me in any way. And that is true whether my congressman gets elected with 98% of the vote or 50.5%. Because if I do go vote or don’t go vote, he will still be elected with that same 98% or 50.5%. Do you understand THAT concept? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/168 "2013-12-30T17:27:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The Congressman in my district is Elijah Cummings. You’re lucky. He’s a great congressman. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/169 "2013-12-30T17:29:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re lucky. He’s a great congressman. In your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/170 "2013-12-30T17:59:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You understand the concept of “My vote is one vote. Not two. Not a dozen. One”? And my few cents I put in the Salvation Army pot in front of the grocery store is just a few cents. > [@](#): > > You may get warm fuzzies from feeling like a part of some kind of voting bloc. I don’t. If voting gives you warm fuzzies then it makes sense to vote - people get pleasure/satisfaction in weirder ways. Voting, knowing that my one vote (see the above paragraph) has no chance of making any difference whatsoever, does not pleasure or satisfy me in any way. And that is true whether my congressman gets elected with 98% of the vote or 50.5%. Because if I do go vote or don’t go vote, he will still be elected with that same 98% or 50.5%. Do you understand THAT concept? Like I said above - good. Don’t vote. Makes me even warmer and fuzzier. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/171 "2013-12-30T18:00:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You’re lucky. He’s a great congressman. Agree. He stands up to that pathetic asshole Issa. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/172 "2013-12-30T18:18:19Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And my few cents I put in the Salvation Army pot in front of the grocery store is just a few cents. Of course. They mean nothing. The only rational reason to give is for warm/fuzzies. That’s why people give. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/173 "2013-12-30T18:23:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course. They mean nothing. The only rational reason to give is for warm/fuzzies. That’s why people give. It’s also a good thing to do because giving is likely to inspire others to give. By the same token, voting publicly (and wearing “I voted” stickers and such) is likely to inspire others to vote. So if one thinks that giving to charity and voting are good things for large numbers of people to do, it makes sense to do them because it’s very possible it will inspire others to give/vote that might not have otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/174 "2013-12-30T18:33:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By the same token, voting publicly (and wearing “I voted” stickers and such) is likely to inspire others to vote. I understand wearing “I voted” stickers (although I have never seen anyone wear one). But what exactly is “voting publicly”? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/175 "2013-12-30T18:43:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course. They mean nothing. The only rational reason to give is for warm/fuzzies. That’s why people give. I disagree. Maybe you can only throw a quarter in. But when you add it to all the other quarters thrown it, a roomful of people get fed. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/176 "2013-12-30T18:52:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I disagree. Maybe you can only throw a quarter in. But when you add it to all the other quarters thrown it, a roomful of people get fed. And if you don’t add it to all of the other quarters thrown in, a roomful of people get fed. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/177 "2013-12-30T18:52:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course. They mean nothing. The only rational reason to give is for warm/fuzzies. That’s why people give. Really? That money doesn’t add up to millions of dollars? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/178 "2013-12-30T18:55:57Z")
We’re now fully in Olsson territory: > **[The Logic of Collective Action](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action)** > > The Logic of Collective Action: Public Goods and the Theory of Groups is a book by Mancur Olson Jr. published in 1965. It develops a theory of political science and economics of concentrated benefits versus diffuse costs. Its central argument is that concentrated minor interests will be overrepresented and diffuse majority interests trumped, due to a free-rider problem that is stronger when a group becomes larger. > The book challenged accepted wisdom in Olson's day that: > The book argues instead... Yes, sometimes you can freeload and get what you want without contributing anything, Terr. All you lose is your warm and fuzzy feeling and immunity from our scorn. If that’s okay with you, fine. We won’t bother you while you sit in the corner if you don’t bother us. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/179 "2013-12-30T18:59:32Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Really? That money doesn’t add up to millions of dollars? Your money doesn’t. It adds up to, as you wrote, “a few cents”. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391/180 "2013-12-30T19:00:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Your money doesn’t. Of course it does. My money is part of the money in the pot that adds to millions. Math. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-gerrymandered-districts-be-un-gerrymandered/640391.md?page=10)