# How could Harry Potter have a "godfather"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820 "2004-06-05T16:32:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/1 "2004-06-05T16:32:03Z")
In _The Prisoner of Azkaban,_ Sirius Black is Harry Potter’s “godfather.” How could he be? Rowling’s witches and wizards are not Christians . . . are they? They celebrate Easter and Christmas – just for the fun of it, one presumes – but Hogwarts does not appear to have any chapel and the students never attend religious services – not Christian, nor Wiccan or neo-pagan or any other kind. How could Harry have a godfather if he never went through a Christian baptism? ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/2 "2004-06-05T16:40:32Z")
Isn’t this a pretty big spoiler? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/3 "2004-06-05T16:41:05Z")
Well, the founders of Hogwarts might have wanted to provide an environment free of religion for their students. In fact, we don’t know that there is no chapel at Hogwarts, it’s just never been discussed. We also don’t know if he was baptized or not. Even if they’re not Christian, they could have borrowed the concept from Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/4 "2004-06-05T16:53:37Z")
Both Easter and Christmas have pagan roots, so although one would expect different labels for the celebrations if the staff and students are primarily non-Christian (and really, there’s no way to know), it’s not that surprising. As for the “godfather”, it’s not particularly uncommon among modern Atheists (and I imagine other non-Christian groups as well) to apply the term to the adults who will be responsible for the children’s care should their parents die unexpectedly. The term may have a religious origin, but it’s long since been co-opted for secular use. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/5 "2004-06-05T16:56:17Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Isn’t this a pretty big spoiler? It’s not, and the book has been out for almost three years. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/6 "2004-06-05T17:09:45Z")
As religion hasn’t been discussed in the Harry Potter books, we don’t know what religion, if any, Harry and his parents are or were, or indeed, any of the characters in the book. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/7 "2004-06-05T17:22:33Z")
I always assumed that most of the Hogwarts students were culturally Christian. Meaning, they were probably baptised ceremonially as infants in a Church of England church, and then never saw the inside of a church again unless they attended a wedding or a funeral. They celebrate Christmas and Easter as cultural holidays and understand, more or less, the basics of Christianity and the New Testament. Isn’t that how it is for many (most?) of the people of Great Britain anyway? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/8 "2004-06-05T17:34:58Z")
Uh, Christianity isn’t the only religion/culture with godparents. Would someone refresh my memory with a book/page reference for a Hogwarts Easter celebration? I remember only Haloween and Christmas being celebrated (Halloween being an obvious witch/wizard holiday, Christmas celebrated with trees, a tradition that derives from pre-Christian practices). I’m having trouble locating any iconography that is Christian per se (as opposed to pre-Christian). ---
**Author:** ![Hot\_Buttered\_Toast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b38774/32.png) [@Hot\_Buttered\_Toast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hot_Buttered_Toast)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/9 "2004-06-05T17:57:37Z")
Their spring break is called the Easter holiday, but I don’t think there’s any overt Christianity. It should be mentioned in all of the books, but the only instance I can actually remember is Goblet of Fire, where Hermione gets the smallest Easter egg from Mrs Weasley. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/10 "2004-06-05T17:57:45Z")
I really don’t see being a witch or wizard \*\*in Harry’s world \*\* as having anything at all to do with religion. It’s a talent or skill, or gene or something that gives them the ability (or not) to do magic, and therefore not associated with religion. More of a physical characteristic as opposed to spriritual. I think of wizards as being members of any religion that muggles are. I see the Irish kid (Seamas Finnigan) as being Catholic, most of the English kids as being Anglican, Parvati and Padma Patil as being Hindu or another Eastern religion. Whether they are practicing their religion or not, I think of them as having some sort of religious background. They don’t mention a chapel or temple or anything like that probably because religion isn’t the focus of the stories. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/11 "2004-06-05T18:02:27Z")
Also, families like Hermione’s who are completely Muggle would probably have some sort of religious tradition. After all, Lily Potter was the only witch in her family. It’s possible that she was raised Anglican or some other religion and therefore having godparents for Harry was part of the family tradition…religious or not. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/12 "2004-06-05T18:48:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They celebrate Easter and Christmas – just for the fun of it, one presumes – but Hogwarts does not appear to have any chapel and the students never attend religious services – not Christian, nor Wiccan or neo-pagan or any other kind. Just because they don’t show it doesn’t mean we should conclude it isn’t part of life. They never show a witch give birth, but I think we are safe to assume that baby wizards and witches are born the same way as muggles instead of hatched, or grown in gardens. There are all sort of things we can conclude happen that they don’t show - professors taking a crap, young wizards polishing their wands, adult witches and wizards paying tuition… This world is too close to ours to expect _everything_ is supposed to be different within it. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/13 "2004-06-05T18:55:42Z")
I had godparents and my mother is an atheist. (my father is ignostic, I suppose, or apatheistic, if you like that term better). In our family it was a legal term, meaning that only one of my uncles was allowed to claim custody if my parents were to die. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/14 "2004-06-05T19:54:44Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I really don’t see being a witch or wizard \*\*in Harry’s world \*\* as having anything at all to do with religion. It’s a talent or skill, or gene or something that gives them the ability (or not) to do magic, and therefore not associated with religion. More of a physical characteristic as opposed to spriritual. But it’s not just a physical characteristic, it’s a separate culture and society, existing alongside, and invisible to, muggle society. Wizards have their own schools, banks, businesses, shopping districts, government (the Ministry of Magic), prison system (Azkaban), and all-wizard towns and villages such as Hogsmeade. What they don’t seem to have is any kind of churches or temples. I’ve always found that a curious omission – is Rowling simply dodging the issue? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/15 "2004-06-05T19:57:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What they don’t seem to have is any kind of churches or temples. I’ve always found that a curious omission – is Rowling simply dodging the issue? Though that was a nice set of standing stones outside the castle–whether used for astronomy or arcane rites, it did remind us that Hogwarts and wizardry have an ancient history that is sometimes overlooked when we just see a British school with head girls and boys, points for houses, and end-of-term examinations for advancement. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/16 "2004-06-05T20:29:42Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > young wizards polishing their wands :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/17 "2004-06-05T20:35:35Z")
The wizard’s staff has a knob on the end, Knob on the end, Knob on the end, The wizard’s staff has a knob on the end, What he does with it is magic! (by some Terry Pratchett fan or other) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/18 "2004-06-05T21:12:47Z")
There is one somewhat Christian reference (that I can recall). A passage in **GoF** describes a suit of armour singing _O Come All Ye Faithful_ whenever someone walks by—but it doesn’t know all the words. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/19 "2004-06-05T22:36:37Z")
Is there any way we could ask Rowling this question? Does she have an e-mail address or something? (I could mail her a letter c/o her publisher but that’s just so 20th-Century . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820/20 "2004-06-05T22:42:03Z")
BrainGlutton writes: \> I’ve always found that a curious omission – is Rowling simply dodging the \> issue? I think that Rowling is not just dodging the issue. I think that she simply hasn’t even figured out how to explain the relationship of the wizards to muggle religions. She hasn’t figured out the relationship of the wizards to muggle culture in general. If you think carefully about it, the background of the relationship of wizards to muggles doesn’t make any sense. There’s no way to explain why wizard culture seems so close to muggle culture in some ways and yet so far from it in other ways. This may be irrelevant to one’s appreciation of the books, I suppose. I know that this is true of many objections I have to many novels. When I explain the logical problems in novel X by author Y to the fans of novel X, they tell me, “It’s just a novel. It’s not supposed to make any logical sense. Quit overanalyzing it.” This is why there’s a sense in which the fundamentalists who think that the Harry Potter books advocate the use of magic are onto something. If you were to take the background of the Harry Potter books seriously, they do seem to advocate a world in which religion is irrelevant and magic serves as a substitute for it. Now, the fans of the books, of whatever age, don’t really believe in magic. For all I know, Rowling may be very religious herself and not remotely believe in any of the magical background in her books. Taking books more seriously than they were intended may be the typical tactic of fundamentalists. But it _is_ true that any attempt to make sense of the Harry Potter books, either by fundamentalists who don’t like to have to experience fiction with different worldviews or by quibblers like me who make quixotic attempts to figure out a consistent worldview in fiction, would show that the books are inconsistent at a deep level. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-harry-potter-have-a-godfather/248820.md?page=2)