# How could people in a society live with pedophiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068 "2016-01-24T05:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/1 "2016-01-24T05:53:42Z")
I’m thinking of a country like Afghanistan where its openly accepted to have young boys as concubines or in other countries where girls are married off to old men. Or other countries with child prostitution. Or in countries where they deliberately blind or maim children so they can earn money as beggers. Just what kind of people would do such a thing? They are children. I look at a childs face, any child, no matter what color they are and I just want to protect them. Why would a decent member of a society stand back and watch a child raped and abused? Surely these people have children of their own. Dont all humans have a basic instinct to protect the innocent? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/2 "2016-01-24T06:02:29Z")
No offense man but we’ve finally found something we 100% agree on. Not only that you explained it much better than I could. People who do stuff like that are evil. If I could push a button and painlessly put them to sleep forever, I would, without hesitation. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/3 "2016-01-24T06:13:24Z")
I don’t think there’s “concubine” boys in Afghanistan. I doubt they accept any form of homosexuality, at any age. Maiming children is not pedophilia either. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/4 "2016-01-24T06:19:22Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I don’t think there’s “concubine” boys in Afghanistan. I doubt they accept any form of homosexuality, at any age. [U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html) > [@](#): > > Maiming children is not pedophilia either. Regardless of the title you give it, it is horrible, unforgivable and unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/5 "2016-01-24T06:25:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > [U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html) Good point. I had forgotten about this one. Heavy. > [@Robert163](#): > > Regardless of the title you give it, it is horrible, unforgivable and unacceptable. Absolutely. But the title of the thread is not “How can a society live with people who harm children?” ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/6 "2016-01-24T06:31:54Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Dont all humans have a basic instinct to protect the innocent? Why aren’t you personally doing anything about it? People will overlook all types of horrible shit that doesn’t impact them personally. Not everyone’s a hero. In countries where people can get away with murder would be hero’s don’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/7 "2016-01-24T06:32:06Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Good point. I had forgotten about this one. Heavy. > > Absolutely. But the title of the thread is not “How can a society live with people who harm children?” Ummm… ok? I’m not sure the title really matters that much. I think the content is far far FAR more important than an error of definition. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/8 "2016-01-24T06:41:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m thinking of a country like Afghanistan where its openly accepted to have young boys as concubines or in other countries where girls are married off to old men. Or other countries with child prostitution. Or in countries where they deliberately blind or maim children so they can earn money as beggers. > > Just what kind of people would do such a thing? They are children. I look at a childs face, any child, no matter what color they are and I just want to protect them. Why would a decent member of a society stand back and watch a child raped and abused? Surely these people have children of their own. Dont all humans have a basic instinct to protect the innocent? It’s always hard on a person when he realizes that people are in fact NOT basically good. That idea is a myth created by civilization. Many, many people, if left to themselves, will willingly and even gleefully express cruelty, depraved desires, and assorted other impulses that are suppressed only by the threat of punishment. The vast majority of human groups, from small tribes to fairly sophisticated cities, have not shown any desire to punish some of those behaviors. Mankind in his unimproved state is a savage, vicious creature. Nor does civilization cure those impulses–it only attempts to prevent the outward manifestation of them. It cannot touch the underlying tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/9 "2016-01-24T06:47:44Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It’s always hard on a person when he realizes that people are in fact NOT basically good. That idea is a myth created by civilization. Many, many people, if left to themselves, will willingly and even gleefully express cruelty, depraved desires, and assorted other impulses that are suppressed only by the threat of punishment. > > The vast majority of human groups, from small tribes to fairly sophisticated cities, have not shown any desire to punish some of those behaviors. Mankind in his unimproved state is a savage, vicious creature. Nor does civilization cure those impulses–it only attempts to prevent the outward manifestation of them. It cannot touch the underlying tendencies. So you think hunter and gatherers, people living in small groups, living off of and close to the land, you think they have even more rape, pedophilia, violence, oppression, etc, than we do??? I’m not doubting you per se but could you fashion an answer that includes some details or a cite? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/10 "2016-01-24T06:50:53Z")
These things happen in societies where life has little value. A select few may have lives of value as we would see it. The rest are disposable, lucky to be alive at all, and must be in some way useful to the select few to stay alive, otherwise they are disposable. Those that are disgusted by rapists will not act, protecting their own lives and their families is all they can manage already. The word ‘society’ hardly seems to apply to this situation, it is chaotic anarchy and there is no force to hold back the worst of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/11 "2016-01-24T06:52:37Z")
They don’t. It’s like asking how a society lives with rapists or murderers. As the NYT report also pointed out civilians complained about the abuse of their children by warlords, warlords who were protected by the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/12 "2016-01-24T06:54:23Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > These things happen in societies where life has little value. A select few may have lives of value as we would see it. The rest are disposable, lucky to be alive at all, and must be in some way useful to the select few to stay alive, otherwise they are disposable. Those that are disgusted by rapists will not act, protecting their own lives and their families is all they can manage already. The word ‘society’ hardly seems to apply to this situation, it is chaotic anarchy and there is no force to hold back the worst of behavior. this sounds sadly accurate, i suspect ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/13 "2016-01-24T07:38:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > So you think hunter and gatherers, people living in small groups, living off of and close to the land, you think they have even more rape, pedophilia, violence, oppression, etc, than we do??? > > I’m not doubting you per se but could you fashion an answer that includes some details or a cite? [National Center for Policy Analysis:](http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=11461) > [@](#): > > Based on faulty or incomplete observations, some anthropologists have long promoted the view that primitive human cultures are nonviolent – while modern, Western societies foster violence. […] > > However, compared to the United States, some traditional societies are more violent. For example, > > The U.S. murder rate rose from 4.5 homicides per 100,000 residents in 1957-58 to 10.2 per 100,000 in 1980. > Although the Kung, or bushmen, of the Kalahari Desert have few murders, when the murder rate is extrapolated to a larger population, it turned out to be 29.3 per 100,000 – or nearly three times higher than the U.S. average. > The Gebusi tribe of New Guinea shuns displays of anger or violence, yet their average of 3.07 murders per year translates into 568 murders per 100,000 population. Moreover, we can see from historical records that most ancient societies didn’t recognize the concept of marital rape or sexual autonomy for women and children. It was generally considered normal to be sexually attracted (heterosexually, at least) to post-pubescent young adolescents. So, short answer: **throughout human history, some forms of what we now consider sexual abuse and exploitation were not always recognized as such, but considered normal parts of life. Other forms were widely rejected and denounced but nonetheless practiced by people powerful enough to get away with them.** And no, there is no universal human “instinct” independent of cultural context that automatically identifies the young and/or powerless as “innocents” who are entitled to “protection”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/14 "2016-01-24T07:41:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > [National Center for Policy Analysis:](http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=11461) > > Moreover, we can see from historical records that most ancient societies didn’t recognize the concept of marital rape or sexual autonomy for women and children. It was generally considered normal to be sexually attracted (heterosexually, at least) to post-pubescent young adolescents. > > So, short answer: **throughout human history, some forms of what we now consider sexual abuse and exploitation were not always recognized as such, but considered normal parts of life. Other forms were widely rejected and denounced but nonetheless practiced by people powerful enough to get away with them.** Not happy statistics but thanks for providing them… > [@](#): > > And no, there is no universal human “instinct” independent of cultural context that automatically identifies the young and/or powerless as “innocents” who are entitled to “protection”. But is not one of the strongest human drives is to “protect the group”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/15 "2016-01-24T07:49:25Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > But is not one of the strongest human drives is to “protect the group”? If by that you mean, wouldn’t humans instinctively band together to defend themselves as a group from immediate dangers from predators etc., then yeah, maybe. (Although surely there are lots of humans who in the stress of the moment would just try to save themselves and/or their nearest and dearest and to hell with the rest of the group?) But even if that’s so, humans aren’t spending all of their time coping with immediate and severe threats to their survival. When danger’s not overwhelming and imminent, most people are more focused on their own desires and enjoyment than on the well-being of their “group” as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/16 "2016-01-24T08:05:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So, short answer: **throughout human history, some forms of what we now consider sexual abuse and exploitation were not always recognized as such, but considered normal parts of life. Other forms were widely rejected and denounced but nonetheless practiced by people powerful enough to get away with them.** > > And no, there is no universal human “instinct” independent of cultural context that automatically identifies the young and/or powerless as “innocents” who are entitled to “protection”. Hmm… Now I’m starting to get it. Some people just have to be told “No, that is wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/17 "2016-01-24T08:06:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If by that you mean, wouldn’t humans instinctively band together to defend themselves as a group from immediate dangers from predators etc., then yeah, maybe. (Although surely there are lots of humans who in the stress of the moment would just try to save themselves and/or their nearest and dearest and to hell with the rest of the group?) > > But even if that’s so, humans aren’t spending all of their time coping with immediate and severe threats to their survival. When danger’s not overwhelming and imminent, most people are more focused on their own desires and enjoyment than on the well-being of their “group” as a whole. Oh, yeah, that sounds accurate ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/18 "2016-01-24T08:19:05Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Why aren’t you personally doing anything about it? Well not me per se but as a society as we bring attention to such problems they are being dealt with. Consider child prostitution. I’ve read that because of international efforts of bringing shame onto countries the authorities have stepped in to outlaw it. For example in some SE Asian countries like Cambodia there have been police crackdowns. In Afghanistan international pressure has at least forced it to underground. India seems to be making progress not only against selling children into marriage but also into stopping abuse. So I think international pressure is helping. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/19 "2016-01-24T08:27:52Z")
This sounds like, “How could people go along with the Holocaust? How could people let the Rwandan genocide, etc., happen?” Humans are capable of tolerating extremely abhorrent behavior. History has shown this time and time again. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068/20 "2016-01-24T09:24:14Z")
I think that this is stretching the statistics a bit far. To extrapolate 4.5 and 3.07 actual murders to compare with 23,000 in the US in 1980 (down to 14,249 in 2014) does not make any sense. Data from [http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm](http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm) > [@](#): > > The U.S. murder rate rose from 4.5 homicides per 100,000 residents in 1957-58 to 10.2 per 100,000 in 1980. > Although the Kung, or bushmen, of the Kalahari Desert have few murders, when the murder rate is extrapolated to a larger population, it turned out to be 29.3 per 100,000 – or nearly three times higher than the U.S. average. > The Gebusi tribe of New Guinea shuns displays of anger or violence, yet their average of 3.07 murders per year translates into 568 murders per 100,000 population. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-people-in-a-society-live-with-pedophiles/744068.md?page=2)