# How could someone like Newton believe in irrational things **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540 "2017-04-16T02:43:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/21 "2017-04-16T04:16:44Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > but is Newton that big a scientific giant > > someone made the claim before that Newton wasn’t known in the scientific world until the 1980s with the rise of the internet > > not even Einstein was aware of him, is this true? You must have been reading about Juice Newton. Sir Isaac Newton has been widely regarded as the greatest scientist who ever lived, since his own lifetime. I would be surprised if Einstein didn’t agree. There is no chance that any 20th century physicist wasn’t aware of him. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/22 "2017-04-16T04:41:57Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > How could Isaac Newton believe in nonsense like alchemy, finding biblical codes in the bible, prophecies and all that nonsense, I mean that stuff is just silly > > it makes me argue if he was even smart to begin with, I mean the average high school atheist today has more intellect than Newton when it comes to that stuff “Genius” is a term that is very often used much too loosely. It has been watered down so that anyone who shows above-average proficiency in some area is in danger of being called one. Newton was a genius in the true sense, and a genius of the highest rank. Any one of several contributions to several different scientific disciplines would entitle him to be called a genius. Thinking that he wasn’t even smart betrays a complete ignorance of the history of science. Posting that thought, without even bothering to first read a brief biography of Newton, reveals something rather more serious. That being said, I think your question is profound, because a similar question has consumed me for the last 50 years. You say you don’t understand how a smart guy can believe in Biblical codes; I say I don’t understand how a smart guy can believe in the Bible, period. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/23 "2017-04-16T04:44:15Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I say I don’t understand how a smart guy can believe in the Bible, period. Probably because you’re making incorrect assumptions about the role of holy texts in religious traditions. If you take a religious studies class sometime, you’ll be quickly disabused of those misconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/24 "2017-04-16T04:50:48Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Third, Newton was kind of wack, anyway. He visited the wrath of his position and influence on Robert Hooke (who himself was kind of a legendary asshole); he never married or (as far as we are aware) had any romantic relationships; he had many contentious professional relationships which he damaged or destroyed through apparent (of sometimes justified) paranoia over not receiving primacy; and generally seems to have been a kind of unpleasant person who obsessively focused his energies in excess of science and natural philosophy on studies that were of little general interest. > > Stranger I take it you are familiar with his later work as Master of the Royal Mint? Where he basically put an end to forgers and counterfeiters, and had scores hanged, drawn and quartered? Often doing the investigations and interrogations himself, in some cases having the wives and mistresses of the forgerers pressurized (read: threatened or administered a damn good thrashing) to get information. And often cross-examining accused himself. He also undertook reforms to currency, which would have earned him a place in history regardless of his scientific work. Man was a genius and a first rate nut. ---
**Author:** ![Complexintuition](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Complexintuition](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Complexintuition)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/25 "2017-04-16T05:09:47Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have no idea where you got the idea that Newton was only made famous because of the internet. That is like saying that most people never heard of Benjamin Franklin until Google showed up. That is patently absurd. Newton was internationally famous even during his own life and it never stopped. He is one of the most famous scientists that ever lived and is instantly recognizable to almost anyone that attended school before 1800 or so. > > Here is a long list of places named after him and books published about him. They span centuries and I am sure there will be more. > > [List of things named after Isaac Newton - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Isaac_Newton) So would the Founding Fathers of known of Newton? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/26 "2017-04-16T05:13:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > … > Man was a genius and a first rate nut. Yeah, toward the end of his life he was mad as a hatter, literally. (He suffered from mercury poisoning, which would later become the reason hatters were known to go insane.) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/27 "2017-04-16T05:14:20Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Probably because you’re making incorrect assumptions about the role of holy texts in religious traditions. If you take a religious studies class sometime, you’ll be quickly disabused of those misconceptions. I’m painfully aware that most Christians (to pick the low-hanging fruit) don’t know or care much about the Bible, but that’s not what I mean. I mean I don’t understand how an intelligent, educated adult can believe even the most basic tenets derived from the Bible, e.g. (being Easter and all) that Jesus rose from the dead and saved humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/28 "2017-04-16T05:20:14Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > So would the Founding Fathers of known of Newton? Everyone with a college education at that time would have, and many without. I mean, [here’s](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/benjamin-franklin-from-man-about-town-to-man-on-the-run/) a painting of Benjamin Franklin with a bust of Isaac Newton on his desk. It’s possible he even met him, Franklin visited London in 1724. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/29 "2017-04-16T05:25:49Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > So would the Founding Fathers of known of Newton? Is this a [serious question](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Benjamin_Franklin_with_bust_of_Isaac_Newton_by_David_Martin.JPG)? How old are you? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/30 "2017-04-16T05:36:38Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > but is Newton that big a scientific giant > > someone made the claim before that Newton wasn’t known in the scientific world until the 1980s with the rise of the internet > > not even Einstein was aware of him, is this true? Seriously? Where did you get this? I learned about Newton in grade school in the 60s. People talked about Newton’s theories on TV news programs during the space race. Einstein was very much aware of Newton and showed where his theories were incomplete. Go to Google books and search on Newton and look at the dates on the returned references. The idea that Newton was practically unknown before the internet is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/31 "2017-04-16T06:08:35Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > So would the Founding Fathers of known of Newton? Please stop using “of” in place of “have”. “…would the founding fathers **have** known…” “Should have” or “should’ve”, not “should of”. “Would have” or “would’ve”, not “would of”. It makes you sound illiterate, which you’re clearly not. Sorry. It’s a pet peeve that drives me nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Complexintuition](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Complexintuition](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Complexintuition)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/32 "2017-04-16T06:23:24Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Everyone with a college education at that time would have, and many without. > > I mean, [here’s](https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/benjamin-franklin-from-man-about-town-to-man-on-the-run/) a painting of Benjamin Franklin with a bust of Isaac Newton on his desk. > > It’s possible he even met him, Franklin visited London in 1724. to be fair that bust in the painting could be a famous greek or roman person that Franklin admired Newton had long hair, i mean unless their is some context clues, it doesn’t explicitly show that the bust is that of Newton ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/33 "2017-04-16T06:31:05Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m painfully aware that most Christians (to pick the low-hanging fruit) don’t know or care much about the Bible, but that’s not what I mean. That’s not what _I_ mean, either. Seriously, take a class sometime. Religion is a complicated sociocultural phenomenon that requires nuance to understand how people interact with their religious traditions. > [@](#): > > I mean I don’t understand how an intelligent, educated adult can believe even the most basic tenets derived from the Bible, e.g. (being Easter and all) that Jesus rose from the dead and saved humanity. Aside from the fact that there are some Christians who _don’t_ (seriously, this is why you need to understand how holy texts function–it’s a lot more complicated than “everyone assumes everything should be taken at face value”), why _can’t_ an intelligent person believe it? What, exactly, about that belief is incompatible with intelligence? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/34 "2017-04-16T06:40:33Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > So would the Founding Fathers of known of Newton? …are you kidding? Thomas Jefferson explicitly cited him as an intellectual influence. And John Locke–who the American founders knew forwards and backwards–was profoundly influenced by Newton. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/35 "2017-04-16T07:12:35Z")
Jefferson called Bacon, Locke and Newton ‘the three greatest men that have ever lived, without any exception’. So, yes, he had heard of him. [https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trm033.html](https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trm033.html) > [@Complexintuition](#): > > someone made the claim before that Newton > wasn’t known in the scientific world until the 1980s with the rise of the internet One further example to underline what others have said - in the 1970s Newton was so famous that he appeared on [the most widely circulated UK banknote](http://www.britishnotes.co.uk/news_and_info/picture_library/englishpictures/reverses/b341_342 __w_rev__.jpg). That’s real fame for you. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/36 "2017-04-16T07:28:51Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > to be fair that bust in the painting could be a famous greek or roman person that Franklin admired > > Newton had long hair, i mean unless their is some context clues, it doesn’t explicitly show that the bust is that of Newton The bust is Newton. It is still in the Royal Society archives to this day. Newton had short hair, as did most Englishmen at the time. He did wear long wigs on formal occasions, because that was what people did back then. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/37 "2017-04-16T07:43:21Z")
You’re making the common mistake of equating rationalism with intelligence. This is an extremely common misconception helped in no small part by the rationalist community who like to conflate the two to boost their own status. In reality, the two are quite orthogonal and there’s ample evidence to demonstrate that more intelligent people are more apt to cling to their irrational beliefs because they have better cognitive tools to intellectually justify their beliefs. It’s also been my experience that people who are at the groundbreaking genius level are also way, way more likely to have completely nutso, out their beliefs. In a way, this makes a lot of sense. Only people willing to break from the status quo and have independent thought are going to be capable of making genuine breakthroughs. If you’re the first person to discover a conceptualization of a problem, by definition, you are in disagreement with every single other person in the world. That kind of thinking has a high tendency to bleed into other areas of their life as well. During my time working at a research lab, you could go out for beers with some of the top minds in the field and they would happily prattle on about all of the strange and crazy beliefs, chiefly on topics outside their primary area of expertise. The difference is, most of these people had enough social intelligence to also understand there would be little gain and an extreme amount of cost to them trying to spread these beliefs in public so they were completely buttoned up and only let loose in private conversations. To the outside world, they seemed like they had completely conventional beliefs but that was just because they hid it really well. You’d probably be surprised at the number of famous scientists who believe completely crazy things but the few examples that are part of the public consciousness (Newton, Pauling, Hoyle) are only because they chose to actually talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/38 "2017-04-16T07:46:00Z")
> [@Complexintuition](#): > > it’s just usually historical figures are not well known until later > > **i believe Shakespeare wasn’t as being the “greatest english writer” until the Victorian era** > > but i guess Newton was known right away after Principia was released Partially true. Shakespeare was generally considered in the top rung of English writers until around the time of the American War of Independence. Only from around the 1770’s onwards was he elevated to supreme status in both England and Germany. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/39 "2017-04-16T09:23:30Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Seriously, take a class sometime. Interesting how you’re so much more condescending to me than to the OP, whose post makes me look like Aquinas. Not hard to guess whose ox is being gored. > [@](#): > > Religion is a complicated sociocultural phenomenon that requires nuance to understand how people interact with their religious traditions. Fuck, you sound like tomndebb arguing about how hardly anybody took the Bible literally before the 19th century, and that Dark Age peasants knew all along that Genesis was allegorical. > [@](#): > > Aside from the fact that there are some Christians who _don’t_ [believe in the resurrection of Jesus, and its necessity for salvation] Even making allowances for the thousands of denominations which derive from the unambiguous truths laid out by the Bible’s perfect Author, and in full awareness of the No True Scotsman fallacy, anyone who doesn’t believe Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead is not a Christian in any normal context. He can call himself one, and he can believe with all his heart that the philosophy espoused by Jesus is the best ever, but very few people, other than internet pedants trying to win some point, would call him a Christian. I’d be willing to call him a Jesusite if he agreed with Jesus about not accumulating wealth, and not retaliating against enemies, but those beliefs alone would get him thrown out of a lot of churches. > [@](#): > > (seriously, this is why you need to understand how holy texts function–it’s a lot more complicated than “everyone assumes everything should be taken at face value”), Nice straw man, but I have never said that. In fact, I have written approximately 10000 posts on this and other boards about how Christians pick and choose which verses they take seriously. > [@](#): > > why _can’t_ an intelligent person believe [in the resurrection of Jesus, and its necessity for salvation]? What, exactly, about that belief is incompatible with intelligence? Obviously, nothing. Why would I say I don’t why X happens, if X didn’t happen? It is, however, incompatible with rationality. It defies science, logic, and common sense, and there is not a shred of verifiable evidence for it. While I will cheerfully admit that much smarter people than I believe in it, IMO they are not rational in their belief. > [@](#): > > Seriously, take a class sometime. Happy Easter to you, too. I think this is too far off topic to continue here, but if you would like to start a thread in GD about how belief in Jesus’ resurrection is rational, PM me with the title and I will happily participate. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540/40 "2017-04-16T13:11:24Z")
Unitarians have rejected the concept of Jesus as divine for nearly 200 years (hence the name), and have generally been considered Christians by most people for most of that. Back to Newton, a large part of the reason he was so famous is that he was seen, even in his own day, as a sign of the rising power and might of England. English promotion of Newton was promotion of England herself, as a new superpower, as the new center of learning and invention. He was put in charge of the mint because he was a known figure, and people trusted him. The founding fathers considered themselves English and would have not only admired Newton, but taken a great deal of pride in him. Finally, I don’t think some people realize how unknown the world was in the 17th and 18th C and how little data anyone had to work from. Everything was jumbled anecdote–and half of those anecdotes were true! We mock people for believing in the unicorn in the same breath where we mock them for not believing in the platypus. The miracles in the bible were not nearly so incredible in a world where so much that happened had no clear cause or explanation. Alchemy seems much more plausible when there are unexplained transformations happening all over the place–water to ice, corpses to dirt (or flies). How weird is fire? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-someone-like-newton-believe-in-irrational-things/784540.md?page=3)