# How could the Romans use corn? It's American! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 22, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964 "2009-04-22T12:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/1 "2009-04-22T12:03:54Z")
In Today’s classic (from 1978) Cecil says that “No historical evidence suggests that any European had encountered it (Maize) before Christopher Columbus landed in Cuba” in 1492. However there are carvings of Maize/ Indian corn in Rosslyn chapel, Scotland which was built between 1446 and 1484. Forgive the ignorance as I’m new to the messge boards but would this count as historical evidence? rgds Yssy ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/2 "2009-04-22T12:11:47Z")
Could the carvings have been done after the building was built? That is, could the walls have gone up between '46 and '84 and the carvers then called in to make it look pretty over the next 10 years? Or could the carvings have gone in during renovations sometime in the last 500 years? I obviously have no knowledge of fifteenth century masonry technique, I’m just throwing it out there as a question. Also, how can they tell it’s maize and not some other grain? Do you have a picture of the carvings? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/3 "2009-04-22T12:30:56Z")
The wikipedia article on [Rosslyn Chapel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosslyn_Chapel#.27Ears_of_corn.27) has a picture, and a short section that ends with “Mediaeval scholars interpret these carvings as stylised depictions of wheat, strawberries or lilies.” I’d say it’s only historical evidence if you have a theory of earlier European knowledge of maize and you are desperate for evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/4 "2009-04-22T12:34:13Z")
[Link](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/94/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american) to column in question. ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/5 "2009-04-22T17:46:34Z")
Hi guys Thanks for your responses. I am also not a medieval expert and it looks almost impossible to judge from the picture whether it is Maize or not (although I am disinclined to take Wikipedia’s word for it!). Rosslyn Chapel 's website says that work ceased in 1484 when St Clair died. However throughout the last 500 wars it did suffer (especially under the Reformation) until it was restored on Queen Victoria’s orders. I like your theory about it being carved later but there doesn’t seem to be any references to this. Anyone know any Medieval Stonemasons?😉 ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/6 "2009-04-22T18:28:31Z")
By the way, Yssy, welcome to the boards! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/7 "2009-04-22T21:54:23Z")
Hi Yssy - I’ll top your maize carving in Rosslyn with a Stegosaurus carving in Cambodia. 🙂 [http://www.unexplainedearth.com/angkor.php](http://www.unexplainedearth.com/angkor.php) (scroll down the page a bit) ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/8 "2009-04-23T10:33:01Z")
The carving in Rosslyn Chapel really looks more like stylized strawberries to me. Unfortunately, the idiots who think _The Da Vinci Code_ is factual have latched onto this. (Or fortunately for local tourism.) ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/9 "2009-04-23T11:47:37Z")
Una Thanks for the link, I had heard of mokele-mbembe, but hadn’t been aware of something similar in Cambodia, I love these kind of stories…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/10 "2009-04-23T11:48:39Z")
River thank you for the welcome, I think I’m going to like it here! ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/11 "2009-04-23T11:57:21Z")
Baldwin \*Unfortunately, the idiots who think The Da Vinci Code is factual have latched onto this. (Or fortunately for local tourism.) \* Or even unfortunately for local tourism - they are currently building a huge hideous visitor centre next to the medieval church. I propose we beat every reader of The Da Vinci Code with a copy of the book until they acknowledged that it is a word of fiction. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/12 "2009-04-23T16:04:27Z")
Well, _The DaVinci Code_ actually is ostensible fiction. The problem is all the nonsense presented within it as legitimate background fact. (Well, one of the problems – Brown’s also a vile writer and has some serious sexual issues.) I thought it was amusing when the authors of _Holy Blood Holy Grail_, who invented it all, sued Dan Brown. If they had been willing to confess that their book was fiction, they could have cleaned him out, but, since they insisted that it was non-fiction, they had no case, since Brown hadn’t plagiarized their words, and one can’t copyright a fact. ---
**Author:** ![dcongram](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dcongram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dcongram)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/13 "2009-04-24T06:53:23Z")
Some years ago, I was at a barbecue, (steaks, salads, breads & “corn on the cob”) A French national was there, and when offered an ear of corn, retorted “I do NOT eat PIG FOOD!!”. The only corn he was aware of was not fit for human consumption. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/14 "2009-04-24T07:39:47Z")
In traditional vernacular, the term “corn” refers to any cereal primarily used to feed livestock, i.e. wheat, rye, oats, et cetera. What we think of today as “corn” was in past times referred to as “Indian corn”, “maize”, or “corn feed”. The maize “corn” of North America was so foreign to Europe that during the Irish potato famines of 1845-1852 corn that was provided by the British government was often underconsumed as the Irish peasantry had neither the experience nor means to process raw corn into corn meal suitable for baking. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/15 "2009-04-24T12:00:06Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > The problem is all the nonsense presented within it as legitimate background fact. I thought it was amusing when the authors of _Holy Blood Holy Grail_, who invented it all, sued Dan Brown. If they had been willing to confess that their book was fiction, they could have cleaned him out, but, since they insisted that it was non-fiction, they had no case, since Brown hadn’t plagiarized their words, and one can’t copyright a fact. Indeed! Although I must confess to being quite fond of all this pseudo historical stuff, people’s ideas are quite interesting. It’s when it’s presented as historical fact and good scholarship that I start to get really annoyed. People actually believe this stuff and Baigent et al are at the top of the list. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/16 "2009-04-24T17:50:54Z")
> [@Yssy](#): > > … it looks almost impossible to judge from the picture whether it is Maize or not (although I am disinclined to take Wikipedia’s word for it!). Did you try looking at the [full resolution image](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Indian_corn_rosslyn.jpg)? It doesn’t look like Maize to me. To be fair, I’m judging it against modern U.S. corn, not corn from 500 years ago (which, amazingly enough, I’ve never seen). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/17 "2009-04-24T18:10:43Z")
It just looks like oblong dimpled designs to me. Reminds me of another Cecil column, [What’s up with the cocaine mummies?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2375/whats-up-with-the-cocaine-mummies). Then of course there was the BetaMax of _Steel Magnolias_ found in the tomb of Seti I, which proved that 1- The Egyptian had time travel but only up to the 1990s 2- For some reason they recorded the movie with obsolete technology that would not be invented for thousands of years 2- The Pharaoh felt he was above copyright laws 3- Seti I was gay ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/18 "2009-04-27T11:41:56Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Did you try looking at the [full resolution image](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Indian_corn_rosslyn.jpg)? It doesn’t look like Maize to me. To be fair, I’m judging it against modern U.S. corn, not corn from 500 years ago (which, amazingly enough, I’ve never seen). lol Thanks for the pic, I haven’t seen it before. Depressingly it could be just about anything and as for large doughnut shaped thing in the middle… ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/19 "2009-04-27T11:47:17Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > It just looks like oblong dimpled designs to me. > > Reminds me of another Cecil column, [What’s up with the cocaine mummies?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2375/whats-up-with-the-cocaine-mummies). lol Thanks for the link, so ancient transatlantic links are too outre? Ach well, it was a nice thought:) rgds Yssy ---
**Author:** ![Yssy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@Yssy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yssy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964/20 "2009-04-27T11:58:46Z")
Interestingly, while I was googling to find out why people believed the carvings were of American Maize, I found this excellent picture (please excuse the site!) [http://www.rosslynhoax.com/Press\_Reports.htm](http://www.rosslynhoax.com/Press_Reports.htm) More food for thought? Yssy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american/493964.md?page=2)