# How could the U.S. fully comply with Bin Laden's Demands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579 "2003-03-19T16:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/1 "2003-03-19T16:22:17Z")
Many have argued that the U.S. should 'give peace a chance"? or we should ‘stop being the bully’ or ‘stop being the world’s police’ or stop doing whatever it is that we do that makes us hated…and puts us in even more danger of being attacked by terrorists. I’m just wondering what the U.S. would have to do to avoid being victimized by terrorists, especially the Al Qaeda terrorists and followers of Bin Laden. Are there a set of demands that could be met? Is it as simple as "get out of the Saudi Arabia’ or more complex like ‘let Israel rot’ or is it more complicated like ‘stop being infidels’. Are we doomed to be haunted by terrorists due to our very nature of freedom? Do these things doom us: How women are free, how abortion is legal, how risque our movies our, how self indulgent our people are, etc, etc. Also, I’m a little miffed that the the left is anti-war, but on an infidel scale of 1-10 (10 being worst) by Al Qaeda, a person on the left might get a 10, while someone on the right might score closer to a 5. If we are doomed to terrorism because we are infidels, then the higher up on the infidel scale we go, the more Islamic radicals are motivated to crush us. I love all the groaning about what we SHOULDN’T be doing to make us hated by the world, or by Islamic radicals and terrorists. Just what the hell SHOULD we do? Are there some magical demands that can be met? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/2 "2003-03-19T17:33:16Z")
There is nothing the US (or any other Western country for that matter) can do to earn the approval of OBL. Nobody suggests trying, either. The coming war in Iraq has _nothing_ to do with terrorism (except as a recruiting campaign to Islamic radicals courtesy of US taxpayers, of course). What got OBL going seems to have been the presence of non-Muslim troops in Saudi Arabia. Of course giving in to that demand would very possibly be giving in to terrorism, encouraging further demands, i.e. not a wise thing. Perhaps what a political response to Islamic radicalism shoud be could be illustrated by viewing terrorists as the apex of a pyramid: at the top: a few thousands of people willing to kill and die in the middle: a few millions of really angry people. at the bottom: a few hundreds of millions of mildly annoyed people. Reduce the width of the pyramid’s bottom, by constructively addressing the concerns of the mildly annoyed people, and the top of the pyramid shrinks in proportion. A small top remains - there will always be some mad and bad people. Nothing new about that. They are a _law enforcement_ problem, not a military one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/3 "2003-03-19T17:40:16Z")
Hi, **Philster** - I believe it was **Revtim** who had a thread where he suggested giving in to terrorist demands as a way to prevent terrorists from targetting us. (He wanted to figure out a way to do so without making it look like we were.) In that thread, there was a link to the demands that ObL was making on the US as conditions for him no longer targetting us. Essentially it was along the lines of “stop being infidels” - we would have to enforce mass conversion to Islam, make our women wear burqas, change to theocratic government and _shari’a_, and so forth, although I think he threw in some stuff about us joining in holy war against Israel. Not sure if he was serious or not, but have a search for the thread and the link if you like. I would rather die, myself, than give in, but that’s just me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/4 "2003-03-19T17:50:38Z")
I don’t have a really useful cite but I don’t think it stops there at pulling out of Saudi. IIRC OBL wants everyone to practice a certain form of Islam. First all foreign troops would have to leave Saudi, THEN all people in the US must renounce all other religions and convert to Islam, oh, and you are still an ‘infidel’ if you don’t pick his particular brand if Islam. In short the guy is a nutjob and you’ll never make him happy or be able to ‘comply’. From [this](http://www.arab2.com/biography/osama/osama-3-what.htm) article > [@](#): > > Bin Laden is the most notorious advocate of a potent strain of militant Islam that has been gaining popularity in the Muslim world for 30 years. It is simultaneously theological and cultural. Its fundamental tenet is that the Muslim world is being poisoned and desecrated by infidels. These infidels include both outsiders such as the United States and Israel, and governments of Muslim states—such as Egypt and Jordan—that have committed apostasy. The infidels must be driven out of the Muslim world by a jihad, and strict Islamic rule must be established everywhere that Muslims live. These extreme “Islamists,” as Bin Laden biographer Yossef Bodansky dubs them, hope to re-establish the Caliphate, the golden age of Muslim domination that followed the death of Muhammad. They regard the Taliban’s Afghanistan as a model for such Islamic rule. and > [@](#): > > But Bin Laden and his followers are alarming because they don’t want anything from us. They don’t want our sympathy. They want no material thing we can offer them. They don’t want to participate in the community of nations. (They don’t really believe in the nation-state.) They are motivated by religion, not politics. They answer to no one but their god, so they certainly won’t answer to us. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/5 "2003-03-19T17:59:21Z")
I’m guessing that if Islam held worldwide hegemony with only unimportant exceptional non-Islamic countries being holdouts, there would be far less Islamic fundamentalism and the trend would be towards secular states with laws influenced by Islamic codes of virtue and morality and so forth. Reciprocally, I’m guessing that if the predominantly Christian nations were to either decline in power or undergo large-scale conversion to other faiths, the remaining bastions of Christianity would probably end up dominated by fanatics, and, if non-Christian nations established footholds in their portion of the world, they’d perceive them as invading Minions of Satan and would consider themselves to be fighting Holy Wars whenever they engaged in violence against them. Or even more likely if such a scenario had taken place a couple centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/6 "2003-03-19T18:31:19Z")
I don’t think there’s anything that could be done to stop ObL and his posse from hating and plotting. However, there are plenty of constructive things that could be done to shrink his pool of potential recruits. Hint: invading Iraq will enlarge the pool - not with Iraqis, but with Saudis, Jordanians, etc. Finding a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian thing would be a huge step in the right direction, though one of the most difficult. Ending support for oppressive authoritarian regimes would be another. Though frankly, I don’t know that decreasing the pool of potential terrorists is worth the price of a popularly elected fundamentalist government in Saudi Arabia. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/7 "2003-03-19T18:34:53Z")
I’m being a bit sarcastic, but I am driving at a point. We aren’t dealing with terrorism because we are some world bully, or because we are diplomatic disasters. Ironically, something that helped trigger terrorism (being on Saudi soil, and all the complications that go along with having women soldiers there, etc) is something that was a result of a unified U.N. and a coalition with a resolution to liberate Kuwait. Terrorism was coming here no matter what. Being on Saudi soil AND no longer being viewed as an asset by Bin Laden, we were a likely target put into the scope a little faster and more emphatically. So here we go into Iraq. Overall, I don’t think it will mean anything negative to us in terms of additional terrorism. But an anti-war cry is sometimes like this: “Hey, we’re gonna piss off more people and have more people hate us! Now we are gonna get more terrorism” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/8 "2003-03-19T18:47:42Z")
Actually, I think we could pacify ObL by getting out of the Middle East. I’ve read that his main concern is establishing his brand of Muslim fundamentalism all over the Middle East. He doesn’t really CARE about the U.S. except to the extent that we prop up the current set of rulers there. I think the converting to Islam junk is just that: junk. That said, I can’t see acceding to his demands in any event. I just wish Resident Dumya would attack al-Qaeda and stop fooling around with their hated enemy, Saddam Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/9 "2003-03-19T18:51:00Z")
Remember that corny “Independence Day” movie? The President asks the alien “What do you want from us?” The monster says, “We want you to DIE!” That’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Profane\_Creation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Profane\_Creation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane_Creation)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/10 "2003-03-19T20:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Actually, I think we could pacify ObL by getting out of the Middle East. I’ve read that his main concern is establishing his brand of Muslim fundamentalism all over the Middle East. He doesn’t really CARE about the U.S. except to the extent that we prop up the current set of rulers there. I think the converting to Islam junk is just that: junk. > > That said, I can’t see acceding to his demands in any event. I just wish Resident Dumya would attack al-Qaeda and stop fooling around with their hated enemy, Saddam Hussein. \*\* What happened in Afghanistan? What is happeneing right now in Afghanistan? We’re going after a potential source for WMDs in Iraq. Luckily we have the UN Inspections to use as a reason. The next countries (Iran, NK) will be far more challenging since we don’t have an excuse to go into those countries. * * * As for the OP, I don’t think we could do much to ‘appease’ the radicals short of totally pulling out of the Middle East. And that means no longer selling stuff to Israel, etc. Of course, I’m sure it _doesn’t_ mean stopping buying oil from there and making them wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/11 "2003-03-20T13:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Profane Creation \* > \*\*What happened in Afghanistan? > What is happeneing right now in Afghanistan? > > We’re going after a potential source for WMDs in Iraq. \*\* Yes, the attack on Afghanistan was a proper response to Al-Qaeda’s attack. But he didn’t really destroy al-Qaeda, did he? To do that he would have to go after the next two al-Qaeda strongholds: Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Not Iraq. Saddam and ObL hate each other. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/12 "2003-03-20T13:45:05Z")
There is nothing you can do to please terrorists. Once you give in to one demand, they’ll simply ask for something else. That’s why I’m of the opinion that it’s pointless to negotiate with terrorists and generally sets a bad example that it’s viable to blackmail you. You’ve got to hit them so hard that they won’t recover and that others are discouraged from becoming terrorists. However, that doesn’t justify this war on Iraq. This is not about terrorism and it’s not about protecting freedom or peace. Bush has gone too far with this and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he’ll get a wake up call in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/13 "2003-03-20T13:46:29Z")
Has Bin Laden made any demands? I think the only way to please OBL would be to nuke ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![rogue4007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@rogue4007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogue4007)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/14 "2003-03-20T16:31:32Z")
Pleasing OBL is easy, just keep out of muslim countries. He dosnt want Coke, Pepsi or McDonalds any more than we want women in burquas. The western world has a habbit of voicing their morals to the rest of the world, we openly criticise the way they handle law and order, the treatment of women. We may not like it, but do we really have the right to constantly tell them? We have to realise that to them our society is as alien and evil as theirs is to ours. They use terrorism as a way to fight it, because they dont have anything else. The Western world has inflicted their own kind of terrorism on their countries, we use business, music, images and a liberalism that to them is evil. Perhaps if we traded with them, and stopped trying to change the way they live things might be different. Eventually their society will change to converge with ours, but we shouldnt try to push the agenda rogue ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/15 "2003-03-20T16:51:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rogue4007 \* > Pleasing OBL is easy, just keep out of muslim countries. He dosnt want Coke, Pepsi or McDonalds any more than we want women in burquas. The western world has a habbit of voicing their morals to the rest of the world, we openly criticise the way they handle law and order, the treatment of women. We may not like it, but do we really have the right to constantly tell them? \*\* The diference is that women here in the USA can choose to wear or not wear burquas and we won’t stone them or blow up a Saudi burqua factory. We do have the right to criticize their lifestyle if it is a lifestyle of oppression just as they have a right to criticize us. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rogue4007 \* > The Western world has inflicted their own kind of terrorism on their countries, we use business, music, images and a liberalism that to them is evil. Perhaps if we traded with them, and stopped trying to change the way they live things might be different. If you equate cultural influence to blowing up shopping malls and buses then you are insane. And we do in fact trade with Muslim and Arab nations. Do you think we get their oil for free? I’m sorry but it’s not reasonable for any nation to expect to live in complete isolation and not have to interact with the rest of the world. Even if you are a peace protester, Bin Ladin still considers you an infidel. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/16 "2003-03-20T18:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rogue4007 \* > \*\*Pleasing OBL is easy, just keep out of muslim countries. He dosnt want Coke, Pepsi or McDonalds any more than we want women in burquas. The western world has a habbit of voicing their morals to the rest of the world, we openly criticise the way they handle law and order, the treatment of women. We may not like it, but do we really have the right to constantly tell them? We have to realise that to them our society is as alien and evil as theirs is to ours. They use terrorism as a way to fight it, because they dont have anything else. The Western world has inflicted their own kind of terrorism on their countries, we use business, music, images and a liberalism that to them is evil. Perhaps if we traded with them, and stopped trying to change the way they live things might be different. Eventually their society will change to converge with ours, but we shouldnt try to push the agenda > > rogue \*\* Sorry Rogue, but this is just ridiculous. We do have the right to criticize the way they live, examples: - girls die in a school fire; they weren’t allowed to leave, and prevented from doing so, because they were not properly covered, as required by OBL - those girls were lucky, under rule by OBL, girls are not allowed to go to school - girls that violate the above to points, are stoned to death, not after a trial, not after an arrest, just put in a corner and stoned. Note also, a stoning starts with very small rocks, the rocks thrown get larger, until the woman eventually dies, this could take a while. - I am going to try and find one more case where a young girl was raped because her brother walked on a beach with a girl he shouldn’t have. Less dramatic cases - music is banned - dancing is forbidden I openly support any military aggression towards a country that engages in the above practices. Nothing in OBL’s list of requests should be considered or even allowed. In my view, agree with OBL and extreme Islam is like allowing Catholic Priests to rape little boys. On a side note, the war with Iraq, has less to do with OBL/Al Qaeda and more to do with a country that openly supporting terrorist groups, like the one that starts with an M, Mugagabe (sp?), and giving between $10,000 and $25,000 cheques (in a ceremony!) to the family of suicide bombers in Palestine. Can you imagine if the Pope gave rapist Priests a cheque for $25,000? My apologies if that wasn’t a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/17 "2003-03-20T18:46:31Z")
I would like to try and provide a more reasonable comparison that my previous post. > **[Google News](https://news.google.com/search?hl=en-US&q=kopp%2Bsentenced&btnG=Search%2BNews&gl=US&ceid=US:en)** > > Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News. James Kopp was recently found guilty of murder. Kopp was a religious extremist that tired to use violence to sway political and social beliefs. Whether you agree with abortion or not, killing a doctor (which he was convicted of) or blowing up an abortion clinics (which he did not do) are terrorists acts. The US, Canada, UK, and France, went through a lot of effort to make sure that he was arrested, and convicted. The current war on terrorism focuses on countries that either allow/encourage people to shoot infidels, support and train them, or give them (or their family) huge sums of money as a reward. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/18 "2003-03-20T18:57:03Z")
I agree that there is nothing that can be done to make OBL and his type happy. As soon as Afghanistan was Soviet free, the USA was targetted because we are infidels. We weren’t targetted prior to that, because we served a purpose to OBL. I love this complaint too. “Oh, we were buddies with OBL, now he tries to kill us. What were we doing giving him arms!?” I also think that once you understand that, you don’t have to run like a frightened bunny everytime you need to make an international decision of the magnitude that disarming Iraq is. If you need to disarm Iraq because they have gases/chemicals and nuclear components, it’s catch-22 to back off for fear you would be exposing yourself to more terrorism. In other words, how could anyone say we shouldn’t disarm Iraq if you know that OBL seeks chem/bio/nuc weapons? And, Iraq has used them, and also seeks the destruction of Israel and the U.S. OBL and Saddam ain’t partying together, but having Saddam in the mid-east and having tons of weapons UNACCOUNTED for, then it’s Russian roullette to hope no one gets possession of them. Anyone afraid of terrorists and willing to negotiate has no clue as to what it’s all about. Anyone who thinks ‘inspections were working’ is naive. Unless of course, those who believe ‘inspections were working’ could please tell me how Iraq could dispose of all the chem/bio/nuc agents that they possessed. Pardon me, Iraq, but are we to believe that after you threw out the UN, you voluntarily disposed of things like mustard gas, and it went into some magical void in the earth somewhere? Point us to a bunker were it is being stored! No war. Appease terrorists. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/19 "2003-03-20T19:03:20Z")
“Osama Bin Laden has laid out the goals of his war against America - a peace settlement for the Palestinians and the removal of all foreign military forces from the Arabian Peninsula.” [http://www.megastories.com/attack/binladen/video011007.shtml](http://www.megastories.com/attack/binladen/video011007.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579/20 "2003-03-20T19:03:23Z")
“no war!” = appease = fear terrorists and appease to their demands [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-the-u-s-fully-comply-with-bin-ladens-demands/162579.md?page=2)