# How could you give someone panic disorder **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534 "2014-09-05T00:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/1 "2014-09-05T00:49:59Z")
Hypothetical situation. If one wanted to induce panic disorder in a person or an animal (for medical research, state sponsored terrorism against dissidents, etc) how is it done? I know treatments for panic disorder involve increasing GABA, so would lowering GABA levels create it? GABA drugs, SSRIs and SNRIs seem to treat it, would depleting those neurotransmitters cause it? With depression I assume you could lower serotonin, dopamine, NE and/or increase acetylcholine and GABA to help trigger a depression. Is the etiology of panic disorder well understood biologically to the point where it can be caused or treated (biologically, not psychologically)? ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/2 "2014-09-06T13:33:42Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Hypothetical situation. If one wanted to induce panic disorder in a person or an animal (for medical research, state sponsored terrorism against dissidents, etc) how is it done? I know treatments for panic disorder involve increasing GABA, so would lowering GABA levels create it? GABA drugs, SSRIs and SNRIs seem to treat it, would depleting those neurotransmitters cause it? > > With depression I assume you could lower serotonin, dopamine, NE and/or increase acetylcholine and GABA to help trigger a depression. > > Is the etiology of panic disorder well understood biologically to the point where it can be caused or treated (biologically, not psychologically)? I’m not sure if you can actually induce a full blown disorder, but there are numerous chemicals which when administered can induce the symptoms of a panic attack. Many of these, as you might suspect, act as direct or indirect antagonists at GABA-A receptors. A fragment of Cholecystekinin, termed CCK-4, is used for this purpose (as a peptide, it is short acting as the body breaks it down pretty quickly after injected, and it is often used to test anxiolytic drugs for efficacy), as can Bicuculline and Picrotoxin (as a non-competitive blocker of the GABA-A ion channel). Panic disorder, of course, like most other psychiatric disorders, still isn’t well understood. We understand bits and pieces of it like the above antagonism of GABA-A acutely causing panic attacks, and some of the brain “structures” known to be involved in the symptomatology, but I haven’t run across any conclusively proven neurobiology outlining most/all aspects behind it. Next, acetylcholine is, very generally speaking, excitatory in the CNS, and should probably be lumped in with dopamine, not GABA. Finally, it’s important to understand that the mechanisms of action of some of the antidepressants we use still aren’t very well understand. We nominally refer to Fluoxetine (Prozac) as a Specific Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor and Duloxetine (Cymbalta) as a Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor, but in truth, the monoamine deficiency theory behind depression (and anxiety disorders) has largely been viewed as…incomplete, at best, or as dead wrong, at worst, since well before I was a pharmacy student learning this stuff in 2006 (the year we covered these topics, for me), so the current evidence seems to be leaning against their nominal categorical names being all that relevant as to what they actually are doing. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/3 "2014-09-06T14:01:39Z")
I’ve got PTSD and I’m not aware of any drug regimen which “cures” or really successfully treats panic disorder. From about health, in an [article written by Katharina Star](http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/faq1/f/Can-Panic-Disorder-Be-Permanently-Cured.htm), Ph.D. which is lists as a panic disorder expert: > [@](#): > > Question: Can Panic Disorder Be Permanently Cured? > > People with panic disorder frequently want to know if there is any technique or medication that can completely rid them of symptoms. The truth is that panic disorder can never be entirely cured. However, it can be effectively managed to the point that it no longer significantly impairs your life. > > One reason why no one can claim to have a cure is because panic disorder varies greatly from person to person. What works for one panic suffer may not be effective at all for another. Even though there is not a magic bullet to wipe out every case of panic, through treatment, patience, and persistence, you can find what methods help you handle this disorder. Listed below are the most common sources for coping with panic disorder. Then it goes through the list of therapies, self-help, etc. Under medication, it gives SSRIs and then > [@](#): > > Benzodiazepines tranquilizers are another class of drugs that are also used to ease anxiety and alleviate panic. Alprazolam (Xanax), Lorazepam (Ativan) and Clonazepam (Klonopin) are frequently prescribed for panic sufferers to provide immediate reduction in anxiety symptoms. There is some potential for abuse with these medications. Such medications are also recognized to create a tolerance, meaning that over time, higher doses will be needed in order to get the same effects. Another difficulty with these medications is that once a person is taken off of them, their anxiety can actually come back even worse than ever before. Your possible questions and concerns should always be discussed with your doctor before beginning any prescription. With the caveat that I’m simply someone who has the condition and not an expert on treatment, from what I’ve read and in discussions with other people who also have the disorder, I don’t know how possible it would be to mimic or induce this disorder strictly chemically, even if the mechanics were known a little more. So much of what is unpleasant about the attacks are the triggers, and I wouldn’t know how to go about creating those (chemically). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/4 "2014-09-08T01:50:56Z")
Give them something that causes a panic attack, but keep them from figuring out when it is, and only give them when they are out of the house. You’ll have to do it multiple times, but it should invoke panic disorder/agoraphobia in anyone. At least, that would jibe with the current understanding of the subject. People who don’t get panic disorder from panic attacks generally don’t have them often, are educated about what they are and that they are ultimately harmless, and have a clear idea of what caused them, and thus have no reason to fear them happening again. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/5 "2014-09-08T21:59:19Z")
My understanding is THC and lactate can trigger them, but I think only in people who have had one in the past. THC can trigger one even in people who have smoked for years, and after that each time they smoke another panic attack happens. So yeah maybe priming someone with lactate and THC, then exposing them to something scary and doing that over and over. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/6 "2014-09-08T23:06:43Z")
An easy way is to get someone (predisposed most likely) and give them benzodiazepines or other anxiolytics, or certain drugs like MDMA. [Then take them off of the drug](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA#After-effects). The rebound effect can be rough, although there are also other negative effects. The neurotransmitter is important, but also important is where in the nervous system you are increasing or decreasing release. GABA, glutamate, and acetylcholine are pretty widespread, and you could affect the wrong areas even if targeting the right NT depending on drug. Also, as alluded to above, some may only affect certain subcategories of receptors. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-could-you-give-someone-panic-disorder/697534/7 "2014-09-09T00:10:22Z")
Well, if you want to study study it using animals you can either buy or create [anxious mice](http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/publications/in-vivo/Vol1_no8_apr29_02/anxious-mice.html). Create: > [@](#): > > The research . . . describes a window of time during mouse development—between five and 21 days after birth—when the brain becomes wired to be anxious later in life. Buy: > [@](#): > > Mice who live all their lives without the gene for the serotonin-5HT1A receptor, so-called knock-out mice, become very anxious, indicating the gene acts normally to prevent anxiety.