# How damaging is it that Clinton was fired for lying during Watergate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726 "2008-04-02T21:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/1 "2008-04-02T21:25:00Z")
Is it even true? [Link](http://www.northstarwriters.com/dc163.htm). Money quote: > [@Cited article](#): > > Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee … When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation … > > Why? > > “Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.” If she were that bad, why wasn’t she disbarred? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/2 "2008-04-02T21:33:15Z")
Got a cite for that piece of info that is more well known than the one given? Looks like a glorified blog to me, but maybe North Star Writers Group is just not something I’ve come across before. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/3 "2008-04-02T21:52:52Z")
A quick google show this story is echoing among the usual right-wing suspects (Newsmax, Free Republic, Conservapunk). The closest I’ve seen to a legitimate sourcing is [this link](http://www.jzeifman.com/) to a blog purportedly run by Zeifman himself (he’s hawking a book–surprise surprise). He’s clearly making accusations, and Senator Clinton did serve on the impeachment inquiry legal staff that advised the House Judiciary Committee during the Watergate scandal in 1974. IMO though unless someone else from that time can corroborate this guy’s story, it will go nowhere fast. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/4 "2008-04-02T21:53:31Z")
Googling shows only a few blogs and publications I’ve never heard of are picking up the story. This is the sort of thing the major politcal news organs would chew over endlessly, but it hasn’t even been mentioned on Fox News. Here’s [the columnist’s home page.](http://www.northstarwriters.com/dancalabrese.htm) You can judge his crednetials for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/5 "2008-04-02T21:59:24Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_clinton#Three_decisions) says only: > [@](#): > > During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman’s newly founded Children’s Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts,[53] and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.[54] During 1974 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.[55][56] Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum,[35] Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment.[56] The committee’s work culminated in the resignation of President Richard Nixon in August 1974.[56] Nothing about this Zeifman. Googling his name I came across his [website,](http://www.jzeifman.com/) which contains what appears to be the full text of the article linked in the OP. Following the paragraph quoted in the OP it says: > [@](#): > > How could a 27-year-old House staff member do all that? She couldn’t do it by herself, but Zeifman said she was one of several individuals – including Marshall, special counsel John Doar and senior associate special counsel (and future Clinton White House Counsel) Bernard Nussbaum – who engaged in a seemingly implausible scheme to deny Richard Nixon the right to counsel during the investigation. > > Why would they want to do that? Because, according to Zeifman, they feared putting Watergate break-in mastermind E. Howard Hunt on the stand to be cross-examined by counsel to the president. Hunt, Zeifman said, had the goods on nefarious activities in the Kennedy Administration that would have made Watergate look like a day at the beach – including Kennedy’s purported complicity in the attempted assassination of Fidel Castro. Zeifman is the author of [_Without Honor: Crimes of Camelot and the Impeachment of President Nixon_](http://www.amazon.com/Without-Crimes-Camelot-Impeachment-President/dp/B000J17CQA/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207173280&sr=8-1) (1995) and [_Hillary’s Pursuit of Power_](http://www.amazon.com/Hillarys-Pursuit-Power-Jerry-Zeifman/dp/1425717918/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207173280&sr=8-2) (2006). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/6 "2008-04-02T22:27:33Z")
Jerry Zeifman, the guy who is making the charges about Clinton, wrote a book in 1996 about his time on the Watergate investigations committee. [The Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/reviews/matthewdallek.htm) had this to say about his work: > [@](#): > > Zeifman’s book will surely excite conspiracy buffs on the lookout for sinister coverups in high places. But those wary of such unsubstantiated theories (myself included) will find Zeifman’s book an unconvincing, if imaginative, tale of intrigue. . . . The lack of evidence makes this theory hard to swallow. Zeifman’s most reliable source – his diary – contains few revelations and seems little more than a chronicle of his suspicions and speculations. The book’s jacket cover, which promises readers "truths even more startling than those brought out in Oliver Stone’s movies ‘Nixon’ and ‘JFK’, " does not help matters. While I have no clue whether Mr. Zeifman’s charges (and by extension the allegations by North Star Writers Group) are true. But it seems that Mr. Zeifman has also called for Nancy Pelosi’s resignation. [Link.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1813292/posts) So the claims that he’s a true blue Democrat seem a little odd… Between being called a crank in the Washington Post and leveling criticism at powerful Democratic women, color me a little skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/7 "2008-04-02T22:34:50Z")
I don’t know if it matters if it is actually true or not, but really what matters is: at what level do you believe it is true? That’s what matters most in the media. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/8 "2008-04-02T22:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff . . . 😕 “Fired”? It was a temp job. The investigation was over. For that matter, is there any independent cite showing Zeifman even had the **authority** to fire her? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/9 "2008-04-02T23:00:48Z")
The Obama-loving lefties over at Daily Kos have been chewing this story over and they’re highly dubious of its veracity. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/10 "2008-04-02T23:07:37Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] A quick google show this story is echoing among the usual right-wing suspects (Newsmax, Free Republic, Conservapunk). The closest I’ve seen to a legitimate sourcing is [this link](http://www.jzeifman.com/) to a blog purportedly run by Zeifman himself (he’s hawking a book–surprise surprise). [/QUOTE] A quick Google also showed it’s on the usual left-wing suspects (Kos, Huffington, MyDD, Slate, Wonkette), so I’m not sure what you’re trying to insinuate here. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/11 "2008-04-02T23:56:10Z")
Interesting sidebar, here. No doubt Jeffery Zeifman is the son of the then counsel to the Judiciary Committee, Jerome Zeifman, during the Watergate hearings. “Zeifman” isn’t exactly a common name. There are many, many stories in that time frame where the elder Zeifman was involved in strife among the committee members, etc. This will possibly be the link that induced Zeifman the Junior to bring all this up. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/12 "2008-04-03T00:05:54Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Interesting sidebar, here. No doubt Jeffery Zeifman is the son of the then counsel to the Judiciary Committee, Jerome Zeifman, during the Watergate hearings. “Zeifman” isn’t exactly a common name. There are many, many stories in that time frame where the elder Zeifman was involved in strife among the committee members, etc. This will possibly be the link that induced Zeifman the Junior to bring all this up. [/QUOTE] I’m an idiot. It’s the same guy. This stuff appeared in Cal Thomas columns in the 1990’s when Zeifman’s book came out. Weak. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/13 "2008-04-03T01:48:10Z")
I have no evidence one way or the other, but IMHO, this just seems to be yet another example of a tactic used by the supporters for either Party. To quote “The Wire” from this season: “The bigger the lie, the more they believe” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/14 "2008-04-03T02:36:06Z")
[QUOTE=flickster] I have no evidence one way or the other, but IMHO, this just seems to be yet another example of a tactic used by the supporters for either Party. To quote “The Wire” from this season: “The bigger the lie, the more they believe” [/QUOTE] I’m flashing on a vaguely recalled scene from [_Wag the Dog:_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_dog) “. . . and if they’ll back down, we’ll promise not to deploy the B-3 bomber!” “There is no B-3 bomber.” “Great! We deny it even exists!” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/15 "2008-04-03T02:53:53Z")
Hmm. Even if she was fired for cause in the early 70’s, it’s kinda old news, by now. (Dubya cycled through a lackluster job performance, or two, at that time, IIRC. Didn’t hurt _his_ prospects in 2000.) The accusations appear to come from a guy wanting to sell me the “tell-all” book, right? I don’t think this would convince any swing voters of anything. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/16 "2008-04-03T03:14:24Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Interesting sidebar, here. No doubt Jeffery Zeifman is the son of the then counsel to the Judiciary Committee, Jerome Zeifman, during the Watergate hearings. “Zeifman” isn’t exactly a common name. There are many, many stories in that time frame where the elder Zeifman was involved in strife among the committee members, etc. This will possibly be the link that induced Zeifman the Junior to bring all this up. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=samclem] I’m an idiot. It’s the same guy. This stuff appeared in Cal Thomas columns in the 1990’s when Zeifman’s book came out. Weak. [/QUOTE] That (the strife, not **samclem** ’s purported idiocy) is my recollection as well. As the Committee’s resident counsel, Zeifman apparently resented the fact that Peter Rodino (the Chairman) brought in John Doar to run the investigation. In addition, he seemed to feel that Doar’s presentations to the Committee were insufficiently partisan. Which was deliberate: Rodino and Doar were courting the Southern Democrats, who in turn could bring some of the more moderate Republicans on board (a tactic which worked). Zeifman’s attitude, on the other hand, was “the Pubs will never go for it, it’s going to be a straight party-line vote, let’s ram 'er through and be done with it.” Had it gone down that way in the Judiciary Committee, I very much doubt that Nixon would have resigned: he would probably have seen it as a political fight, thus one he could win. The end result would have been the same — President Ford — but the Rodino/Doar approach saved the country several months of grief. And Zeifman was left a mere spirit of malice that gnawed itself in the shadows, but could not again grow or take shape. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/17 "2008-04-03T03:44:34Z")
[QUOTE=OttoDaFe] And Zeifman was left a mere spirit of malice that gnawed itself in the shadows, but could not again grow or take shape. [/QUOTE] Nicely put, and puts this story in its proper place. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/18 "2008-04-03T07:25:24Z")
Interesting. I note that no one’s actually debunking the story - it’s just not newsworthy. BTW nice one, **OttoDaFe**. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/19 "2008-04-03T07:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Interesting. I note that no one’s actually debunking the story - it’s just not newsworthy. [/QUOTE] What is there to debunk? Zeifman’s unsubstantiated allegations? How would you go about doing that, exactly? He offers nothing other than his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726/20 "2008-04-03T10:49:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Contrapuntal** said: > What is there to debunk? Zeifman’s unsubstantiated allegations? How would you go about doing that, exactly? He offers nothing other than his opinion. I suppose if one were industrious one could look to see if there were any record of the documents being checked out of the public archives, or try to find the brief that Zeifman says Hillary wrote. Other than that what we have is a guy who said he refused her a letter of recommendation her for being unethical and lying, and accuses her of stealing documents, and his claim to have journals of everything during Watergate. And we have Hillary, who has lied (most recently about sniper fire in Bosnia) and who has had shady dealings with documents (the records of the Rose law firm that were missing but then found somewhere else entirely). I’m inclined to agree with Zeifman that she is unethical and a liar. Whether he ‘fired’ her or her job ended because the investigation was up is not really the biggest piece of that cake. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-damaging-is-it-that-clinton-was-fired-for-lying-during-watergate/443726.md?page=2)