# How dangerous are refugees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514 "2016-09-21T16:40:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/1 "2016-09-21T16:40:25Z")
Spinning this off of the main Trump thread in Elections, since it’s turning into a hijack. One of the Trumplings tweeted a [refugees=Skittles](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19640133&postcount=6839) meme which kicked off a debate over how dangerous refugees actually are. I feel like I kicked off the hijack with [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19641875&postcount=6884) post, which I made in response to another poster saying that they found the Skittles meme accurate, though in poor taste. I’ll admit that I drew an incorrect conclusion from the cited statistic, and I’ll dive deeper if I have time and don’t get ninja’d. I still believe that the Skittles meme **is** inaccurate, but I concede that I don’t have a sufficient cite for it yet. So let’s move the discussion over here and let the Trump thread return to its regularly scheduled incredulous despair. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/2 "2016-09-21T16:44:41Z")
We can’t know how accurate the Skittles meme is until we know how the refugees taste! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/3 "2016-09-21T17:17:35Z")
AFAIK, there are no reliable crime numbers on US refugees as distinct from other immigrants. Immigrants as a whole have lower crime rates than citizens. Beyond the simple white nationalism element, a lot of the xenophobia is based on perceptions of refugee crime in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. We do actually have some numbers there, and they [don’t support](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/refugees-crime-rumors/480171/) the xenophobes. Moreover, the US screening is much more intensive than what refugees receive as migrants to the EU. Of course, it’s also always worth noting that Trump is taking a huge shit on American values by declaring that we don’t accept people fleeing hell because we’re too scared of the demons who might be following them. We might as well just knock down the Statue of Liberty and replace it with a statute of Trump cowering in a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/4 "2016-09-21T18:24:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Immigrants as a whole have lower crime rates than citizens. Put another way, refugees are less dangerous than native born Americans. So, do we propose limiting births of native born Americans to reduce the danger to us? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/5 "2016-09-21T18:43:10Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I feel like I kicked off the hijack with [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19641875&postcount=6884) post, which I made in response to another poster saying that they found the Skittles meme accurate, though in poor taste. Since this was a key cite that drove much of the discussion over there, it’s probably worth unraveling here on the first page. The post quoted above pointed to [an NPR article](http://www.npr.org/2016/09/20/494700850/taste-the-outrage-donald-trump-jr-s-tweet-compares-refugees-to-skittles), which links to [a Washington Post article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/19/donald-trump-jr-inadvertantly-encourages-america-to-scoop-up-refugees-by-the-handful/), which references [this report by the Cato Institute](http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa798_1_1.pdf). It doesn’t have overall crime numbers for immigrants either (as Richard Park said, I don’t think there’s a good source of those numbers for the various classifications of immigrants), but instead focuses rather heavily on the terrorist attacks attempted or committed by immigrants, their likelihood of killing Americans, etc between 1975 and 2015. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/6 "2016-09-21T18:52:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Immigrants as a whole have lower crime rates than citizens. What’s the best cite you have on this? (I know there are some out there, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to provide a high-quality one as fodder for the discussion) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/7 "2016-09-21T19:04:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What’s the best cite you have on this? > > (I know there are some out there, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to provide a high-quality one as fodder for the discussion) Remember that any cite is only for reported crimes. Immigrants also don’t like dealing with the police. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/8 "2016-09-21T19:04:59Z")
Here’s a couple citations on immigration and crime. > **[The myth of immigrant criminality and the paradox of assimilation:...](https://www.academia.edu/15815845/The_myth_of_immigrant_criminality_and_the_paradox_of_assimilation_Incarceration_rates_among_native_and_foreign-born_men)** > > The myth of immigrant criminality and the paradox of assimilation: Incarceration rates among native and foreign-born men > **[02j.pdf](https://www.ncjrs.gov/criminal_justice2000/vol_1/02j.pdf)** > > 413.19 KB ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/9 "2016-09-22T06:04:56Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > We can’t know how accurate the Skittles meme is until we know how the refugees taste! Like chicken. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/10 "2016-09-22T06:05:53Z")
My anecdotal contribution to this thread: I work in an Irish law firm that does both refugee and criminal law. Very very few (as in almost none) of the clients of our refugee practice become clients of our criminal practice. I saw Trump made a comment about Somali refugees - we have a _lot_ of those here and they don’t seem to commit many crimes. Actually, [here](http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts-service-pays-more-than-1m-for-interpreters-1.2207259) is a recent article about the languages we need court interpreters for. Hardly any of these are languages of refugee-producing countries. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/11 "2016-09-22T07:27:15Z")
I don’t understand the Skittles analogy - it’s broken out of the box. Three Skittles won’t actually kill me. If you told me three of the Skittles in your bowl would kill me, my first inclination would be to presume you are not telling the truth. If you managed to convince me that you did indeed have a bowl of poison skittles on your desk, I might then start to wonder if you were a dangerous lunatic. So what the hell does the skittles thing mean anyway? As an analogy, it backfires by design. It would work if it was a bottle of pills. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/12 "2016-09-22T19:40:30Z")
I live just blocks away from one of the largest Afghan communities in the US. I’m not sure they count as refugees any more, but judging from police reports no one from that place commits any crimes. They and other immigrant/refugee communities seem more victims than perps. Just anecdotal. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/13 "2016-09-22T20:06:16Z")
Check out how many clearances are required to enter your country as a refugee. It’s an onerous amount checking and every layer of security service having scrutiny. If you’re a terrorist it’s a zillion times easier to come into the country as a tourist. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/14 "2016-09-23T15:50:32Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Check out how many clearances are required to enter your country as a refugee. It’s an onerous amount checking and every layer of security service having scrutiny. > > If you’re a terrorist it’s a zillion times easier to come into the country as a tourist. The problem with this is that not every terrorist enters the country with the desire to become a terrorist. The Boston Bombers entered the country as children as political refugees. When they grew up they were radicalized and decided to become terrorists. Many of the terrorists behind the recent spate of european terrorism had similar arcs, entering the country at a young age or being the son of immigrants and then are radicalized years after their parents arrived in the country. How do you check someone to see if their kids are one day going to be radicalized? In regards to the OP and the Syrian refugees, if the US is going to take in tens of thousands at onetime the amount of checking is necessarily going to be reduced and the amount of reduction is going to be scale along with the number of refugees accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/15 "2016-09-23T16:06:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t understand the Skittles analogy - it’s broken out of the box. > > Three Skittles won’t actually kill me. If you told me three of the Skittles in your bowl would kill me, my first inclination would be to presume you are not telling the truth. > If you managed to convince me that you did indeed have a bowl of poison skittles on your desk, I might then start to wonder if you were a dangerous lunatic. So what the hell does the skittles thing mean anyway? As an analogy, it backfires by design. > > It would work if it was a bottle of pills. Plus, would eating some of the Skittles save lives? Then I would of course eat some. It’s worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/16 "2016-09-23T16:32:59Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > Plus, would eating some of the Skittles save lives? Then I would of course eat some. It’s worth the risk. Sure. But what if the green skittles set up sharia law in your appendix. What then, Gedd? WHAT THEN? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/17 "2016-09-23T17:26:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **puddleglum** : > > How do you check someone to see if their kids are one day going to be radicalized? The same way you do with children of American-born citizens, of course. > [@](#): > > Quoth **madsircool** : > > Remember that any cite is only for reported crimes. Immigrants also don’t like dealing with the police. Criminals of all ethnic and national backgrounds don’t like dealing with the police. Victims of criminals usually do. So why would immigrant-committed crimes be any less likely to be reported than native-committed crimes? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/18 "2016-09-23T18:08:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The same way you do with children of American-born citizens, of course. We don’t check American born citizens, but since they are already here and have constitutional rights we can not do anything about that. If they turn radical later then that is something we have to deal with because we live in a constitutional republic. I think that occasional terrorism by american citizens is a small price to pay for our constitutional protections. However, recent experience suggests that when you increase immigration from muslim countries you also get a commensurate increase in the number of terrorist attacks. The question is the increased immigration worth this price? Since immigration mainly benefits the immigrants and terrorism affects everyone, it is not unreasonable for people to oppose the policy of accepting more immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/19 "2016-09-23T18:13:31Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > However, recent experience suggests that when you increase immigration from muslim countries you also get a commensurate increase in the number of terrorist attacks. The question is the increased immigration worth this price? Since immigration mainly benefits the immigrants and terrorism affects everyone, it is not unreasonable for people to oppose the policy of accepting more immigrants. The premises “immigration mainly benefits the immigrants” and “terrorism affects everyone” are false. And you’re missing any discussion of values. Saving kids from barrel bombs and beheadings is worth some risk to most Americans. Some Americans would only save them if they’re white and Christian, but that’s not a majority view yet. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514/20 "2016-09-23T18:28:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Criminals of all ethnic and national backgrounds don’t like dealing with the police. Victims of criminals usually do. So why would immigrant-committed crimes be any less likely to be reported than native-committed crimes? Other way around. Immigrant-victim crimes are less likely to be reported than native-victim crimes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-are-refugees/766514.md?page=2)