# How dangerous is outdoor rock climbing if you're smart about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640 "2010-03-07T18:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/21 "2010-03-08T18:53:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I’ve only done indoor climbing, I don’t think I want to rely on a bolt placed outdoors when I have no idea who put it up and how secure it is. Do you get the name and telephone number of each person who installed a hold in your climbing gym of choice? Just making a point, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/22 "2010-03-08T19:02:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I’ve only done indoor climbing, I don’t think I want to rely on a bolt placed outdoors when I have no idea who put it up and how secure it is. Guidebooks are pretty good at pointing out dodgy equipment. Most developed climbing areas have climbers’ associations, or people involved in access issues, and well-known, developed climbing areas have volunteers that inspect and replace bolts. ETA: in the aboved link to pic of the bolt in the crappy rock, the pic was taken when the bolts were being replaced or upgraded on a route in Colorado, as an example. If you’re in well-established areas, chances are good the bolts are fine, and if they’re not there will be ample information about less-than-optimal stuff. Visually inspecting a bolt will tell you a lot as well. I have down-climbed and abandoned a route while climbing out in the southwest when we didn’t like the look of the placed pro for various reasons (bolt wasn’t flush, chains were worn, etc). If you’ve gotten training, you should be pretty confident about your ability to evaluate fixed gear. There are some pics of [crazy bad gear](http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/988679/Bad_Fixed_Gear_Pics) at Supertopo. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/23 "2010-03-08T19:24:38Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Uh… my above post was mostly comparing the danger of outdoor climbing to indoor climbing. > > If I were to compare the danger to other activities, I’d say… > > Top-rope climbing _indoors_ would be comparably as dangerous as riding your bike to work. > > Top-rope climbing _outdoors_ would be comparably as dangerous as riding your bike to work _during rush hour._ > > Sport leading would be comparably as dangerous as riding your bike to work during rush hour _in the rain in the big city_. > > Trad climbing would be comparably as dangerous as riding your bike to work during rush hour in the rain _at night with no lights in New York City with an “I hate cab drivers!” t-shirt._ > > Multi-pitch trad climbing would be comparably as dangerous as sky diving. I don’t have a lot of climbing experience but I was an active skydiver and I think you are drastically overestimating the danger of skydiving. Like climbing or scuba diving it is gear-intensive (in the sense that you have a few pieces of equipment essential to safety) but the vast majority of injuries and fatalities are due to incredibly obvious deviations from well-established safety procedures. As with all “high risk” sports it is not an amusement park ride where people are inactive participants. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/24 "2010-03-08T19:33:39Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Where!Where!Where!Where! Tell me! Tell me _now!_ Alberta! 😉 There is a ton of rock climbing out here for all levels, and all really well taken care of. [Rocky Mountain Books](http://www.rmbooks.com/books/spring09/sport_climbs_in_the_canadian_rockies.html) publishes updated area route books (with great descriptions/drawings and graded climbs). There is a foundation that I can’t recall the name of that takes care of the pro (maintains and replaces) at all routes in the area for free. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/25 "2010-03-08T19:39:55Z")
In the gym I can only fall around 30 feet and that’s on to a cushioned floor. The only thing that matters there is the rope and my harness, not the holds. I don’t care how many people inspect the outdoors bolts, I am not using them, just not worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/26 "2010-03-08T19:44:30Z")
If you fall 30 feet indoors, you’re still going to probably break something. The floors in climbing gyms aren’t that padded. Honestly, I’ve run into more faulty holds at an indoor gym then faulty pro on sport climbs. But, to each their own. Some people are more willing to take on perceived risks then others. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/27 "2010-03-08T19:49:00Z")
Yes, like some kayakers run class 5 rapids and I won’t go beyond class 3. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/28 "2010-03-08T19:51:38Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > I don’t have a lot of climbing experience but I was an active skydiver and I think you are drastically overestimating the danger of skydiving. Like climbing or scuba diving it is gear-intensive (in the sense that you have a few pieces of equipment essential to safety) but the vast majority of injuries and fatalities are due to incredibly obvious deviations from well-established safety procedures. As with all “high risk” sports it is not an amusement park ride where people are inactive participants. Yes, but is not sky diving comparable to sleeping in a tend 800 feet from the ground then? I would say it’s comparable to scuba diving. My main comparisson between sky diving and multi-pitch is that an accident is not likely to happen, but if it does, you be falling for a loooooooong time. 🙂 Unless your contention is that sky diving is not as dangerous as riding your bike in NYC during rush hour, in which case, I think I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/29 "2010-03-08T19:56:47Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > In the gym I can only fall around 30 feet and that’s on to a cushioned floor. The only thing that matters there is the rope and my harness, not the holds. > > I don’t care how many people inspect the outdoors bolts, I am not using them, just not worth the risk. But you’re also top-roping. Top-roping outdoors is identical to top roping indoors, except your anchors aren’t a pair of slings attached to bolts, they’re webbing wrapped around a giant oak tree and a robust maple tree. Plus, if you’re top-roping outdoors you’re still aiming for redundancy, so there should be two independent anchors in the extremely unlikely event that one fails. There is a negligible differene between top-roping outdoors and top-roping indoors. ETA: Except, apparently outdoors there is a greater risk of getting peed on by a raccoon! HAHAHAHA! (Missed that nugget upthread). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/30 "2010-03-08T20:00:05Z")
Yes, I know top roping can be done outdoors. I should have clarified that I won’t do outdoors stuff without a top rope. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/31 "2010-03-08T20:08:37Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I should have clarified that I won’t do outdoors stuff without a top rope. Out of curiosity, to you lead indoors? > [@EmAnJ](#): > > Alberta! 😉 Details! I need details! Which guidebook should I be looking for? And when are there bugs? I hate bugs. ETA: and do you know off-hand the rating of the multi-pitch sport routes? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/32 "2010-03-08T20:11:38Z")
Don’t lead indoors. I am a beginner and probably will never get beyond that level, I just do it for fun. I don’t have the time or inclination to get good enough to get any better than I am right now. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/33 "2010-03-08T20:44:37Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Don’t lead indoors. I am a beginner and probably will never get beyond that level, I just do it for fun. I don’t have the time or inclination to get good enough to get any better than I am right now. Fair enough. Enjoy, it’s fun! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/34 "2010-03-08T21:14:33Z")
When I learned to climb the guy belaying me screwed up and let me fall so that I almost hit the floor - and I was headed down head first too! Luckily he caught me in time. I don’t know if he did not hear me when I said I was coming down or he got distracted. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/35 "2010-03-08T21:20:57Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Unless your contention is that sky diving is not as dangerous as riding your bike in NYC during rush hour, in which case, I think I agree. Never ridden in NYC but I bike a lot and I work in SF. I think a six-man shootout in a locked outhouse with flamethrowers would be less dangerous than biking in downtown SF during rush hour. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/36 "2010-03-08T23:24:52Z")
Deadly ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/37 "2010-03-09T01:05:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > As a former climber (now come to his sense), I always wondered if this invention would fly: > -it would be a large soft rubber suction cup, that would adhere to any rock face. If you felt very uncomfortable (about to lose your grip), this cup would hold you to the wall for hours, untill help could come. 😕 Um… I don’t understand this. Firstly, there is absolutely zero need for such a thing. If I’m tired or scared or about to fall, whether I’m 15 feet up or 50, all I need to do is I sit back in my harness and rest, or ask my belay to lower me. At any time, I can also clip into fixed or placed gear and hang off the mountain side until the cows come home. I can think of no conceivable situation in which such a device would be better than existing measures. You’re either on a line, in which case there’s no point in the invention, or your free soloing. Free soloist wouldn’t carry them either because it would defeat the entire philosophy of free climbing. Secondly, it would be ridiculously cumbersome to have something like that dangling off your harness, so would be more of a hindrance than help. Every gram of weight makes a difference. That reminds me, I missed soloing on my list! Free Climbing / Free Solo: [(picture)](http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/9/304549-largest_363091390_b253467df0_b.jpg) Climbing solo without any safety line or belay. Basically, no equipment other than shoes and chalk. Requires superhuman climbing skillz and suicidal tendencies. Danger is extreme - it has the highest possible risk in rock climbing. A fall will likely result in death, unless you are deep water soloing (climbing a cliff faces above the sea or other deep body of water). Roped Solo Climbing: there are techniques and devices to self-belay, or aid climb by yourself. So it is possible to climb without a partner while still having a safety line as back-up. Not as death defying as free solo climbing. > [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > ETA: Except, apparently outdoors there is a greater risk of getting peed on by a raccoon! HAHAHAHA! (Missed that nugget upthread). It was her first time climbing outdoors too! 😃 She was on an easy top rope route and about a third of the way up someone saw a sleepy raccoon head peering over a ledge at her. Someone said: “Uh-ooooh…” and was about to warn her to abort the climb, when the raccoon turned around, leaned his butt over the edge, and emptied his bladder. Since then, she doesn’t want to climb outdoors anymore. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640/38 "2010-03-09T06:59:07Z")
I climbed, a lot, from about 1972 til 1990. This is just my perspective YMwillmostassuridlyV. I haven’t read any of the other responses. I never worried about the risk. The risk was why I climbed. It was the rush of being on the edge of what I could do that made it worth doing, else what would be the point? Start on easy climbs and do them top-roped. The fear of falling is still there even though you know you can’t fall far. Once you start getting a handle on what you can do you can move on to harder stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-is-outdoor-rock-climbing-if-youre-smart-about-it/531640.md?page=1)