# How Dangerous Was The Corvair? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319 "2003-04-17T15:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/41 "2010-11-03T21:30:14Z")
Originally posted by **Susanann** and it killed Ernie Kovacks. > [@Governor\_Quinn](#): > > As far as can be told by the evidence, Kovacs had bent over while driving on a slippery street in order to either (accounts differ) pick a cigar off the floor or to light a cigar, lost control, and hit a utility pole. That behavoir would have killed him in EVERY car on the market at that time. I remember clearly when it happened. The “evidence” is that Ernie Kovacs slid on a curve, on a wet road, and then crashed sideways into a tree. He clearly had the rear end of the Corvair swing out on him. (the contention of Ernie losing control because he dropped a cigar, is purely a fairy tale made-up invention) [http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/13141/Ernie\_Kovacs\_Fatal\_Car\_Crash/](http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/13141/Ernie_Kovacs_Fatal_Car_Crash/) [http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,281607,281608](http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,281607,281608) ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/42 "2010-11-03T21:40:05Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann Nope! The Mustang did not help, but it was definitely Nader who got rid of the Corvair after his book came out in 1965. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Well, **Unsafe came out in 64** , but the Mustang came out a year earlier. To get a complete picture, I think you ought to look not only at what people were NOT buying (Corvairs), but also at what they WERE buying (muscle). > > It is exceptionally easy to google up [any](http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi?category=corvairhistory) [number](http://www.online-racer.com/corvair&mustang.htm) of [sources](http://www.calconnect.com/cars/car_wars/car_wars.htm) other than wiki. > > True, these come from enthusiansts, but I find their story plausible. Boo. Sorry. “ **Unsafe at Any Speed** ” did not come out until **1965** , and Nader did not get popular, i.e. become publicly known, until 1966. I can remember this all quite well, and I also bought a brand new red 1966 Corvair convertible with a white top and air conditioning in the summer of 1966. I dont need wiki, and I dont need history revisionists. I was personally there back in the 1960’s, I drove the Corvairs back then, I bought one, I got a super great deal on my Corvair because of all the bad publicity and poor sales of Corvair in 1966, and I can fully well remember it all very well myself, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/43 "2010-11-03T22:09:39Z")
My first car was a 1964 Corvair two-door that my father let me have when he got a better car. Handling problems? Never! It was a GREAT car for driving in the snow because of all the weight in the rear end. There was a problem with intermittent taillights that I never could fix and once got a ticket for. Earlier my father had a 1962 Corvair and while waiting at a traffic light, the engine fell off! The bolt connecting the engine support frame to rear broke away. He stood there stunned while some fellow motorists pushed it into car repair place conveniently next to the traffic light in case engines fell out of Chevrolets. Nader probably did some good in pushing for better safety standards but too often in his career he has demonized people who disagree with him, as Andrew Tobias found out when the two disagreed about “pay at the pump” car insurance. You could also say his campaign in 2000 gave Florida (and the USA) to Dubya, although that freed up Tobacco Farmer Al Gore to make $100 million with his global warming hysteria (ie I won’t trust either of them to change my car’s oil). The VW Beetle was far worse because of how susceptible it was to wind on the highway. Plus the heating system was “move the knobs between the front seats and hope they work”. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/44 "2010-11-04T12:07:45Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Originally Posted by Susanann > Boo. Sorry. Thanks for the correction. I actually knew the correct years for the Rustang and Unsafe, but my fingers and/or brain stumbled while typing. I have no doubt that Nader’s book did not help the Vair, but even your wiki site says the drop in sales was due to a combination of the book, the Rustang, and anticipation of the Camaro. My understanding/recollection is that Corvair was a dead duck in GM’s mind even as the restyle came out in 65 - the aluminum block and other unique parts reduced the profit, and GM’s eye was elsewhere for the future. But I may be mistaken, I may be remembering opinion rather than fact, and I don’t care enough to try to research it. Tho we may disagree on the precise reason for Corvair’s demise, at least we agree that it was a great little car. Hell with was, it still **is**. If you liked them then, you should drive one now. There are still [a ton of them out there](http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?itm=corvair&cat=cp&fil=&pg=&state=) at incredible prices. I know I get a big old 😃 on my face every time I lay eyes on my car, let alone sit behind the wheel… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/45 "2010-11-04T14:52:48Z")
As was mentioned, the original Corvair had an issue with the rear suspension. The swing axles permitted a lot of wheel movement, and the rear engine design made the car prone to oversteer-just like any Porsche of the 1960’s. In the hands of an inexperienced driver (young, used to American understeering cars) it did result in several fatal accidents. As for Ralph Nader-the man is mostly a fraud-he sifted through the data, and selectively condemned the car. Actually, the Corvair had an accident rate lower than most cars of the period. Nader wasn’t interested in truth-he wanted a way to publicize himslef…and GM aided in his effort (they hired private detectives to shadow him)-which played right into his hands. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/46 "2010-11-06T03:38:58Z")
[hijack] I gave Ralph Nader a ride from the airport once, and I picked him up in a station wagon. I asked him what he’d have done if I’d come to get him in a Corvair. Said my humorless passenger: “What would I have done? Not get in the car.” [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/47 "2010-11-06T21:41:30Z")
Ralph Nader was a factor, but not the main reason for the death of the Corvair. I always thought it was a pity that the swing-axle flaw had been fixed by the time _Unsafe_ hit the market. The Corvair was great fun to drive, and I was sorry to see it go. If it had stayed around, I think they would have fixed the oil leak problem. The main thing was that America really wasn’t ready for a compact economy car at the time. I drove various American compacts of that time. They weren’t bad, but the carmakers had misjudged the market. General Motors nearly made a compact just after World War II, but they stuck with full-size cars. The MacPherson Strut was designed for the GM compact that never was. Ford’s Mustang was put together out of Falcon parts, with a cuter body. Internally, very little was new. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/48 "2010-11-06T21:55:06Z")
I owned several, and belonged to the Corvair club years ago. most of the problems Nader bitched about were exaggerated, lies, or fixed early on. the 65 and later models had a much better suspension design, and didn’t have the swing axle problem. The things handled great, got great gas mileage, and were a blast to drive. Just a little ahead their time in some ways. The push rod tubes would leak oil because the o-rings would dry out. Modern materials wouldn’t have this problem. People wouldn’t trust the warnings in the owners manual and on the sticker in the glove box that told what the tire pressure should be. They assumed it was too low, and over-filled the tires which made it handle like shit. People overtightened the fan belts which caused them to fly off. ---
**Author:** ![ratmanizhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b5ac83/32.png) [@ratmanizhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratmanizhere)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/49 "2010-11-06T22:07:14Z")
The only thing I can recall of the Corvair being dangerous was when my Dad sent my Mom out to find a new radiator for their 'vair. Needless to say, Dad almost died a few hours later when Mom returned home. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sco3tt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@sco3tt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sco3tt)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/50 "2010-11-06T23:16:49Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > In Lawrence, KS, circa 1995, I saw a Corvair with the personalized license plate: > > UNSAFE I often saw that same car when I was a student at KU in the 80s. I spoke to Nader after one of his presentations around that time and told him about it, which elicited quite a chuckle. So if you happen to read this thread, “UNSAFE” Corvair driver from Lawrence – Ralph appreciated your joke. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/51 "2010-11-07T15:17:58Z")
I feel… Oddly compelled to post in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319/52 "2010-11-07T16:38:38Z")
> [@Zappo](#): > > The '60-'64 Corvair’s main fault was the lack of sway bars on its swing-axle rear suspension. Without sway bars, the axles could move to the limits of their travel when cornering enthusastically. When this was coupled with low tire pressure, sometimes the sidewall of the tire would break the bead, causing an “airout” where the tire would suddenly deflate. > > This would cause the car to go out of control and in most cases, flip over. If the tire pressures are scrupulously monitored on a first-generation Corvair, the risk of a sudden airout is minimal. If one installs sway bars on the rear suspension (an easy modification that lots of folks did back when the cars were new), the problem is almost totally eliminated. > > The second-generation 'Vair (1965-'69) has a totally redesigned suspension and doesn’t have this problem It’s quite a shame. . .by the time the much-improved '65 Corvair came out, Nader’s book had sealed the car’s fate. I can testify to that. I rolled mine. A 1964 Spyder. I was aware of the potential problem and got extra wide tires to mitigate it. Apparently that was not enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dangerous-was-the-corvair/169319.md?page=2)