How Dangerous Was The Corvair?

Factual Questions
21

The '60-'64 Corvair’s main fault was the lack of sway bars on its swing-axle rear suspension. Without sway bars, the axles could move to the limits of their travel when cornering enthusastically. When this was coupled with low tire pressure, sometimes the sidewall of the tire would break the bead, causing an “airout” where the tire would suddenly deflate.

This would cause the car to go out of control and in most cases, flip over. If the tire pressures are scrupulously monitored on a first-generation Corvair, the risk of a sudden airout is minimal. If one installs sway bars on the rear suspension (an easy modification that lots of folks did back when the cars were new), the problem is almost totally eliminated.

The second-generation 'Vair (1965-'69) has a totally redesigned suspension and doesn’t have this problem It’s quite a shame. . .by the time the much-improved '65 Corvair came out, Nader’s book had sealed the car’s fate.

22

As far as can be told by the evidence, Kovacs had bent over while driving on a slippery street in order to either (accounts differ) pick a cigar off the floor or to light a cigar, lost control, and hit a utility pole. That behavoir would have killed him in EVERY car on the market at that time.

23

Nader, of course, mainly criticized GM for not putting those sway bars on in the first place – had to knock that $15 off the price, doncha know. It is a shame that many people didn’t really get the point, but the legal climate that Nader produced has resulted in far safer cars, which is a good thing. It still makes me sick that essential safety equipment like ABS and air bags are only available on some cars by buying expensive options packages (y’listenin’, HONDA?).

24

I forget where I read this, but it was said that the REAL cause of the Corvair’s demise wasn’t really Nader, GM just let him take the rap for it. The reason GM killed the Corvair, finally was because of the new emissions laws which were coming down the pike. GM knew that it’d be a pain to get the Corvair to pass them as it was currently built, and they had some other car that they felt would be a hot seller coming out that would pass the emissions laws, so they decided to allow the Corvair to take a dive. Pity, they are pretty cars.

BMW, supposedly (my source for this is the book Car Wars by Jonathan Mantle) copied much of the Corvair for it’s 60s 318 model. If you look at those cars you can see a pretty close resemblance to the Corvair, IMHO.

25

For its time, the Corsair was one of the most deadly planes around. Its armor and armament made it more than a match for the Japanese Zero.

What?

Oh. Sorry.

26

The real question is how safe is/was Ralph Nader? Ever look at his arguments in favor of airbags in the 1970s? He described how test monkies were saved by airbags in a test - neglecting to mention how they all died in a few days from injuries suffered in the crash - some from the airbags themselves. The technolology thirty years ago simply wasn’t ready yet. He argued against the Volkswagen as well, stating among other things, that consumers were being ripped off, because of the cost, per pound, of the car.

He was quite right about the approach (or lack thereof) to automotive safety at the time, but when the facts were not clear or convincing enough, he simply twisted them around or changed the topic. Hardly ethical, but then, he is a lawyer. And I am sick of his “take no salary, don’t even own a home” shtick. If somebody could correct me, I believe he lives in his sisters quite comfortable home - and she works for one of his organizations. Michael Moore is at least more entertaining when he twists things.

27

Don’t have any accident rates yet but I do know that NHTSA conducted tests on the early vairs. In 1971 they concluded that early model Corvairs were comparable in handling and safety of other vehicles during that time period. In other words, “not unsafe at any speed”

28

Zoom Zoom Zoombie.

29

It’s an ‘anti-roll bar’.

Replace “roll bar” with “anti-roll bar”, which is a device that spans the axle and reduces a car’s tendency to roll over to one side due to the inertia of cornering. Indeed, it would help keep the tire footprint better placed.

.

30

Actually, Other than being of uni-body construction, Corvairs were very different than Volkswagens. IRS, six-cylinders, dual and quad carbs, turbo-charging and hydraulic valve lifters are just a start. It is most also be noted that GM put more R&D into the Corvair than any car to date. Overheating was not a problem as the engine was designed to take outstanding temps. This high temp engine is used in aircraft applications to this day and is often seen in racing circuits without a cooling fan.

31

Unsafe at any carrier landing speed! You couldn’t even see the deck! :eek:

32

Nader’s a zombie! I knew it!

33

Wow - what a zombie!

My main driver is a 62 Monza coupe 4-spd. And yes, the subseq studies clearly showed the Corvair as no more dangerous than it’s contemporaries. Of course, Ralph accused the NHTSA and indepentdent engineers of “rolling over” for the government as bad as Corvairs. What a kidder!

Other than the suspension criticisms, my impression was that the heater and steering column criticisms were largely anecdotal. I have looked quite a bit, and have never seen any study showing greater injuries/deaths in Vairs than similar cars.

The suspension was improved by the '64 model - before the '65 body redesign, and well before UAAS came out. And handling was impaired if tires were not correctly inflated (10# less in front).

It seems pretty clear to me (and others) that Nader swallowed Ford’s anti-Corvair PR hook line and sinker - including video that was later proven to have been faked.

And my understanding is that what killed the Corvair was the Mustang, causing GM to come out with its own ponies. Actually, Nader’s book resulted in more Vairs being made than would have otherwise. GM was planning on ditching it in 67, but kept it going for 2 more years just to make it look like they were not caving in response to the book.

Also, tho nearly 2 million Vairs were sold from 60-69, it was a relatively expensive car to build due to the number of parts that were not shared with other models.

Nader certainly was spot on WRT the industries need to improve safety, but way off base in his criticism of the Vair. But he needed a specific target, and wanted to sell books.

Final point, if you are interested in old cars, IMO you simply cannot find a better car for a better price than a Corvair. They made coupes, sedans, verts, wagons, pickups, and vans. Parts are easy to find and cheap, and you can work on them yourself. Not that he should have the last work, but Jay Leno is quite a fan, and has some fun vids up on his Big Dog Garage site. Having said that, ANY car from the 60s will be more dangerous to drive than ANY new car.

34

I rode in one and lived to tell the tale.

35

Aren’t Beetles body on frame construction?

36

Speaking from personal experience, I drove the early Corvair, 1962(?), and it was noticably “tail heavy”. The rear end would tend to swing out on turns, esp going fast, or on slippery roads. I would not, and did not, buy an early Corvair.

I think Ernie Kovacs died because his Corvair swung out on a turn.

The Corvair substantailly changed in the mid-1960’s. I owned a later Corvair, a brand new 1966 convertible, and it handled so beautifully. I miss it very much. I would just as soon own another 1966 Corvair today if it could be updated with air bags. Great car!!!

37

Nope!

The Mustang did not help, but it was definitely Nader who got rid of the Corvair after his book came out in 1965. Sales of Corvair nosedived after Naders book became popular in 1966 and after Nader was all over the television- Which was ironic since by the time Naders book came out and by the time Corvair sales dropped, the new greatly designed Corvair was for sale. It was criticism of a “different car” (the pre-65 Corvairs) that caused poor sales of the great post 65 Corvairs.

This is how I remember it, nobody I knew wanted a Corvair after Nader’s book came out, except me.

***According to noted GM historian Dave Newell, Chevrolet had planned on ceasing Corvair production after the 1966 model year. Development and engineering changes were halted in 1966 on the year-old, redesigned second-generation cars with mainly federally mandated emissions and safety changes made thereafter. A variety of factors contributed to Corvair’s plummeting sales in 1966.

Ralph Nader, attorney and consumer advocate highlighted the Corvair’s handling↓ in his book Unsafe At Any Speed[10] published in November 1965. A chapter in the book alleged the 1960-63 Corvair’s swing axle design rear suspension contributed to a greater tendency of loss of driver control, spin-out and roll-over. 1966 Corvair sales subsequently fell to half from the sales of 1965.

The Corvair had faced increasing competition from the Ford Mustang, Chevy’s own Camaro, and other pony cars in—ironically, a market pioneered by the Corvair Monza. ***

38

Ralph Nader never owned a car. He did not know how to drive, literally!!

**Ralph Nader didnt even have a drivers license! **

Nobody in my crowd liked Ralph Nader. We thought he was laughable since he could not even drive and yet he was treated, by the news, by Congress, like an expert driver.

The naive dimwitted public seemed, and still seem, to be facinated with Nader’s attempts to pretend to be an expert or to become a “big man” anyway he could.

39

I remember that! That was so funny! Except it was not Ralph Nader who thought that one up.

It actually was Volkswagen itself(their advertising agency) who came up with the advertising idea of how “expensive” a Volkswagen was.

There were lots of funny ads for Volkswagen Beetles invented by Volkswagen’s advertising agency. I have several books of funny VW ads, as well as old magazines that featured those old VW ads.

(Please do not give Ralph Nader any credit for funny VW Beetle ads. Nader had nothing to do with it, although Ralph Nader might have tried to steal that idea like everything else he stole.)

40

Well, Unsafe came out in 64, but the Mustang came out a year earlier. To get a complete picture, I think you ought to look not only at what people were NOT buying (Corvairs), but also at what they WERE buying (muscle).

It is exceptionally easy to google up any number of sources other than wiki.

True, these come from enthusiansts, but I find their story plausible.