# How deep is the Wii's lineup of games? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 18, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560 "2009-04-18T20:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/81 "2009-04-21T19:42:22Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > To a large extent, I agree with you. I have played a lot unique games (Mount & Blade, Sword of the Stars to give some examples) that lacked the polish of an AAA title and suffered mediocre reviews as a consequence, but still ended up being more fun than a big-budget title. But we can’t quite use the “Justin\_Bailey’s personal standard of hardcore games”, can we? Mediacritic might overlook a lot of flawed gems out there, but that should effect all consoles equally. When your argument is that the Wii lineup is somehow filled with _nothing but_ flawed gems, you start sounding a little fanboyish. My argument is no such thing. My argument is that there are more “hardcore” games on the Wii than the fanboys give it credit for. I’m under no delusions that the system’s library isn’t overflowing with shovelware. But there are a lot of great gems in there that people seem to miss. But again, a Metacritic score doesn’t say what type of game a game is. The score itself is just an average of reviews. But how does that score being under 75 make an off road racing game like Excite Truck non-hardcore? Is it the motion controls? Is it the fact it’s not in 720p like Sony’s off road racer for the PS3? Why is MotorStorm without question a hardcore game (to hear Sony’s PR tell it) and Excite Truck isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/82 "2009-04-21T20:37:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Why is MotorStorm without question a hardcore game (to hear Sony’s PR tell it) and Excite Truck isn’t? I think there’s multiple definitions of “hardcore” floating around here: 1. Fancy PC-like graphics 2. Extremely competitive game with a high skill ceiling (for top-level play) 3. “Mature” titles with lots of gratuitous violence 4. Well received critical consensus Obviously, the Wii’s hardware handicaps #1. I’d argue lack of online multiplayer and floaty motion controls seriously limits #2. Nintendo’s stance on #3 is pretty obvious (there are a few exceptions), and we’ve just covered #4. Now, as to why Motorstorm vs. Excite Truck, I’ve never played either so I can’t tell you. MotorStorm looks like a pretty “meh” game to me too. But I’m guessing MotorStorm has something in the #1, #4, **and #2** categories that Excite Truck doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/83 "2009-04-21T20:58:01Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > I think there’s multiple definitions of “hardcore” floating around here: > > 1. Fancy PC-like graphics > 2. Extremely competitive game with a high skill ceiling (for top-level play) > 3. “Mature” titles with lots of gratuitous violence > 4. Well received critical consensus Why would any of those definitions mark a game as “hardcore”? Aside from #2, none of these things are connected to gameplay in any way. And “Extremely competitive game with a high skill ceiling (for top-level play)” is just as undefined as “hardcore”. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/84 "2009-04-21T21:25:06Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Why would any of those definitions mark a game as “hardcore”? Aside from #2, none of these things are connected to gameplay in any way. True (although we might be in disagreement as to the usual effects of #4 on gameplay) I’m just giving you what the popular definitions are. I don’t really care much for #1 and #3 either. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] And “Extremely competitive game with a high skill ceiling (for top-level play)” is just as undefined as “hardcore”. [/QUOTE] Huh? I thought I gave a pretty precise definition. A game where someone that’s put 100+ hours into practice can consistently annihilate someone that’s only put in 10, and someone that’s put 1000 hours in can consistently annihilate the 100 hour guy. Examples: Starcraft. Quake. Street Fighter. Counter-strike. Games that are nigh-impossible to master, have immense followings, tournaments, and leagues devoted to high-caliber play. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/85 "2009-04-21T22:15:37Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Huh? I thought I gave a pretty precise definition. A game where someone that’s put 100+ hours into practice can consistently annihilate someone that’s only put in 10, and someone that’s put 1000 hours in can consistently annihilate the 100 hour guy. > Examples: Starcraft. Quake. Street Fighter. Counter-strike. Games that are nigh-impossible to master, have immense followings, tournaments, and leagues devoted to high-caliber play. Yeah, but it still gets really shaky. For instance, go to any fighting game forum and ask about Super Smash Bros., go get popcorn and watch the massive flame war ensue on whether it’s a “proper tournament worthy fighting game” or not. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/86 "2009-04-21T23:03:29Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Yeah, but it still gets really shaky. For instance, go to any fighting game forum and ask about Super Smash Bros., go get popcorn and watch the massive flame war ensue on whether it’s a “proper tournament worthy fighting game” or not. Unless I’m mistaken, however, SSB:Brawl has pretty minimal Wiimote gestural input stuff, right? I think it just has one use in game (smash attack), and lots of people prefer using the gamecube controller anyway, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/87 "2009-04-21T23:10:36Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Unless I’m mistaken, however, SSB:Brawl has pretty minimal Wiimote gestural input stuff, right? I think it just has one use in game (smash attack), and lots of people prefer using the gamecube controller anyway, correct? Correct. Some people take issue with the “random” elements (which are almost entirely optional). But there is no doubt in my mind the game is of “tournament” caliber, along the likes of Street Fighter and any other fighting game. A newbie does not stand a chance in hell against a veteran, despite the low-barrier of entry. I’ve played the game competitively (I’m pretty damn good at it), and the upper-tier players consistently smoke the lower ones. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/88 "2009-04-22T02:19:45Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I should clarify: I often play games locally with people who are very competent at them (after all, I work in the industry) and we are all very competitive. However, when we want to play, and the choice is online or locally, we will go locally every time it’s feasible. > > Of course, if you don’t have any friends who like games, then I can see why online would be a draw, but as one who has plenty of local gaming buds, online holds very little appeal. That’s great and all. Now when your friends move across the country to stay in the industry, see how you feel about online play. Or you might be like me, where you hang out with lots of gamers, but most of them won’t touch a fighting game, say, with a ten foot pole. Your local gaming doesn’t do you much good then either. I won’t claim that it’s not more entertaining to be in the same room and yelling at one another, but just because you’re one of the lucky minority that can do that doesn’t mean you need to claim that people who like online play don’t have any friends, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/89 "2009-04-22T02:35:45Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > See, now I’m really a PC gamer and _I’d_ say the 360 is gimped because it doesn’t allow user created mods in games like Fallout or Oblivion and that the _real_ hardcore gamers are all playing Dwarf Fortress. All you console kiddies are such a bunch of lightweights. 😉 Now, _this_ I can agree with. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/90 "2009-04-22T02:36:57Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m torn between which version, (if any), of the new Ghostbusters game I will get. They both look great imho, I think the clincher will be how well the Wii controls are implemented. They certainty went out of their way to work in quality and stylized visuals for the Wii. But the PC version looks amazing. We’ll see. The Wii controls were fantastic on the copy I played. I liked it a lot better than the 360/PS3 version, which is also the PC version. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/91 "2009-04-22T03:06:34Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > That’s great and all. Now when your friends move across the country to stay in the industry, see how you feel about online play. Or you might be like me, where you hang out with lots of gamers, but most of them won’t touch a fighting game, say, with a ten foot pole. Your local gaming doesn’t do you much good then either. > > I won’t claim that it’s not more entertaining to be in the same room and yelling at one another, but just because you’re one of the lucky minority that can do that doesn’t mean you need to claim that people who like online play don’t have any friends, thanks. I’m sorry if my preference somehow offended you. I’m not quite sure what your issue is–you’re largely attacking a strawman, as I never contested any of those points. Obviously if one has no local gaming friends, online is the way to go. But to argue that local multiplayer gamers represents a “minority” is going to take a cite for me to believe it. Particularly as the Wii is primarily based around that concept (hence the name itself, according to Nintendo–Wii Sports, an offline game, isn’t one people often play alone). Console gamers got by just fine before the advent of online–let’s not forget online console gaming started a mere six years ago. Furthermore, just barely over half of Xbox owners are also Gold subscribers–meaning half are playing without online at all [Cite](http://www.multiplayergames.com/2009/04/21/over-half-of-xbox-live-subscribers-gold/). And this represents the most “connected” of the three consoles. Then you have to factor in that subscribing doesn’t preclude someone from playing local multiplayer as well. So until you have some specific numbers, I’ll remain skeptical of your claim that local gaming is a “minority.” > [@Airk](#): > > But just because you’re one of the lucky minority that can do that doesn’t mean you need to claim that people who like online play don’t have any friends, thanks. I never said that, and I implore you to reread my comments if you actually believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/92 "2009-04-22T03:16:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > The Wii controls were fantastic on the copy I played. I liked it a lot better than the 360/PS3 version, which is also the PC version. So does Dan Aykroyd. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/93 "2009-04-22T03:33:22Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I’m sorry if my preference somehow offended you. I’m not quite sure what your issue is–you’re largely attacking a strawman, as I never contested any of those points. Obviously if one has no local gaming friends, online is the way to go. But to argue that local multiplayer gamers represents a “minority” is going to take a cite for me to believe it. Particularly as the Wii is primarily based around that concept (hence the name itself, according to Nintendo–Wii Sports, an offline game, isn’t one people often play alone). Console gamers got by just fine before the advent of online–let’s not forget online console gaming started a mere six years ago. > > Furthermore, just barely over half of Xbox owners are also Gold subscribers–meaning half are playing without online at all [Cite](http://www.multiplayergames.com/2009/04/21/over-half-of-xbox-live-subscribers-gold/). And this represents the most “connected” of the three consoles. Then you have to factor in that subscribing doesn’t preclude someone from playing local multiplayer as well. So until you have some specific numbers, I’ll remain skeptical of your claim that local gaming is a "minority. 59% of gamers play with other gamers in person, 22% pay to play an online game. Cite is the ESA Essential Facts Document: > **[2011-EF-FINAL.pdf](https://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2011-EF-FINAL.pdf)** > > 1719.95 KB I’ll admit the numbers are most likely a bit skewed for a number of reasons, and it doesn’t define “pay for online play” (i.e. do “catch-all” subscriptions that work for a multitude of games like Xbox Live Gold Memberships count towards this, or does it have to be something specific like World of Warcraft?) but I don’t think even without the ambiguity it’s going to exceed 59% by any wide margin, especially in light of RB’s cite above. And yes, before anyone says it, I know pay to play doesn’t account for things like free FPS servers and Wii online play, but again, without a cite to the contrary I doubt it’s going to exceed 59% by any wide margin (and probably not at all). They list where they collect their data from on the last few pages in case you need sources. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/94 "2009-04-22T20:08:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > 59% of gamers play with other gamers in person, 22% pay to play an online game. > > Cite is the ESA Essential Facts Document: > [http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA\_EF\_2008.pdf](http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2008.pdf) Good find! I was fairly confident a majority of people were still playing local multiplayer (whether in addition to, or instead of online play). And according to their stats, the number of playing locally is actually increasing year-over-year (which granted, I’m sure is the case for online gaming as well). ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/95 "2009-04-22T20:24:34Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > The Wii controls were fantastic on the copy I played. I liked it a lot better than the 360/PS3 version, which is also the PC version. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > So does Dan Aykroyd. Really. **E-Sabbath** , May I ask when did you get a chance to play it? Would you say you liked the Wii game more overall? I’m new to PC, doesn’t the mouse play a factor in these kinds of games games? **Red** , you have a site by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/96 "2009-04-22T20:27:51Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > **Red** , you have a site by any chance? [Joystiq: Dan Aykroyd prefers Ghostbusters for Wii](http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/13/dan-aykroyd-prefers-ghostbusters-for-wii-says-romance-got-axed/) ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/97 "2009-04-22T20:29:08Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > [Joystiq: Dan Aykroyd prefers Ghostbusters for Wii](http://www.joystiq.com/2009/04/13/dan-aykroyd-prefers-ghostbusters-for-wii-says-romance-got-axed/) Thanks buddy! That was quick! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/98 "2009-04-22T20:31:49Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Thanks buddy! That was quick! 🙂 No worries 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/99 "2009-04-22T20:43:12Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > **E-Sabbath** , May I ask when did you get a chance to play it? Would you say you liked the Wii game more overall? New York Comicon. I liked the Wii game more overall, the wiimote was a superior pointing device than the 360 controller. Plus, it felt more like unlicensed particle accelerator, you know? As for the animation… well, memories of The Real Ghostbusters helped. Wasn’t quite the old Animated Series look, but it was animated well and lively. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560/100 "2009-04-22T21:03:59Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > New York Comicon. I liked the Wii game more overall, the wiimote was a superior pointing device than the 360 controller. Plus, it felt more like unlicensed particle accelerator, you know? > As for the animation… well, memories of The Real Ghostbusters helped. Wasn’t quite the old Animated Series look, but it was animated well and lively. I never got into that cartoon, even though I was probably the target demographic, but I’ve heard people these days list it as one of their all-time favorite kids cartoon series. I personally don’t mind that they aren’t exactly like the cartoons. Especially the white/light blonde haired Egon. Ghostbusters seems like one of those rare games, where a majority of each version is the same basic game, but the Wii version has not only the inherited advantages of it’s controller, but a pretty slick style to that may be more attractive to some over the other iterations. I have to wait to see if I’m going to get the game at all. Cash is tight. I still have my eye on both. I was leaning towards PC, but now I think it’s going to be Wii… it would feel like an “unlicensed particle accelerator”. One little thing I love about the Wii that doesn’t get brought up much is it’s speaker. It serves some fun and practical proposes. Like you listen for sound cues with when you’re playing some games, or you hear the particle accelerator charge. 😃 Thanks for the info!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-deep-is-the-wiis-lineup-of-games/493560.md?page=6)