# How desperate would you need to be before you'd panhandle? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919 "2013-08-11T04:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/61 "2013-08-12T15:44:58Z")
I would have to have lost my house (which is nearly paid for), all my savings (enough to finish paying off the house and live for a about 4 years), and have all my family dead. It would be difficult for someone to take me in with all my animals, but hopefully my neighbors would pasture the horses. Still, I’d have 6 dogs and 5 cats (including a couple barn cats). When the weather is half-way decent, I know of a few abandoned barns I could probably sleep in with no one the wiser. I’ve seen locals panhandling feet away from signs saying “Now hiring - $10/hr”. My heart is not softened. **Emily G** - Have you ever heard Joni Mitchell’s song _[For Free](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQJMq0IZbxI)_? It’s about a busking clarinetist. StG ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/62 "2013-08-12T15:45:49Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The book looks interesting, but you have to wonder why he was estranged from all his children. That in itself is a big red flag for people. Follow-up: Some of the comments to the Amazon reviews implied that his collapse was due to alcoholism. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/63 "2013-08-12T15:50:41Z")
In general, I’d have to be pretty desperate. But I almost did it in Albuquerque for personal research. I’ve written here on the Board about some of the colorful street people I encountered there, many of them panhandlers. When I first hit town, I lived on some friends’ couch at first and wondered just how much these guys on the street made. I considered trying it just to see, especially since I was brand new and didn’t know anyone yet except for the friends I was staying with. But then I found a job pretty quickly and got to know a few people, so it wouldn’t have been too cool to be spotted doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/64 "2013-08-12T15:51:40Z")
> [@Dunkelheit](#): > > I’ve busked, but I don’t suppose that’s quite the same thing. It still felt rather like begging. It’s not. You’re providing a service - entertainment - and not just sitting on your ass going “Got any change?” to passers-by. IMO buskers and panhandlers don’t even belong on the same spectrum. I don’t mind tossing change into the cups of the guys who open the door for you at Tim Horton’s in downtown Toronto and wish you a happy day. They’re doing something - anything - even if it’s just making you smile for a second. I have no use for people who just sit there like a bump on a log asking for money. No. Fuck off and leave me alone. I’ve been poor, unemployed, behind on the rent & bills, broke & hungry and I never, ever resorted to asking random strangers for money. Ever. The thought never even entered my teenaged mind. (Anybody remember the story about the “Shaky Lady” in Toronto a few years ago? An older women would sit and beg all day then her son would pick her up in his Lexus or whatever and they’d go back to their apartment that had a big-screen TV and everything. A newspaper reporter noticed her get up one day - mysteriously cured from the shaking - and get into a nice car so he followed up and exposed her for being a fraud.) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/65 "2013-08-12T15:55:34Z")
> [@Silver\_Fire](#): > > I certainly cannot imagine a situation, EVER, where I would bring my kids with me to panhandle. WTF. That’s fairly common in Thailand. The beggars tend to go in monthly themes. Beggars with puppies one month, with children another etc. And the children are often rented out from someone and not even their own. Their was one case in Pattaya where a transvestite got caught begging with his neighbor’s baby, passing it off as “her” own. He regularly rented it from the neighbor. But especially in Bangkok, the beggars are highly organized, it’s like straight out of Dickens, and a legitimate panhandler would probably get a beating pronto for encroaching on the gang’s turf. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/66 "2013-08-12T16:01:37Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > They didn’t just wind up in the roach-infested flophouse through bad luck. Not necessarily true. One catastrophic, lengthy illness can wipe a person out and with no resources, could easily end up just as described and panhandling. Or what **monstro** said. > [@StGermain](#): > > I’ve seen locals panhandling feet away from signs saying “Now hiring - $10/hr”. My heart is not softened. That doesn’t mean anything. The person may not be qualified or may not be able (disability, just out of prison, mental illnesss, lack of consistent transportation, whatever) to work there for more reasons than I can imagine. You can’t always judge a book through preconceived lenses. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/67 "2013-08-12T16:04:04Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > That’s fairly common in Thailand. The beggars tend to go in monthly themes. Beggars with puppies one month, with children another etc. And the children are often rented out from someone and not even their own. **Their** was one case in Pattaya where a transvestite got caught begging with his neighbor’s baby, passing it off as “her” own. He regularly rented it from the neighbor. But especially in Bangkok, the beggars are highly organized, it’s like straight out of Dickens, and a legitimate panhandler would probably get a beating pronto for encroaching on the gang’s turf. _Ahem_. I meant “There.” Hey, it’s late over here. :o ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/68 "2013-08-12T16:24:19Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > Not necessarily true. One catastrophic, lengthy illness can wipe a person out and with no resources, could easily end up just as described and panhandling. > > Or what **monstro** said. > > That doesn’t mean anything. The person may not be qualified or may not be able (disability, just out of prison, mental illnesss, lack of consistent transportation, whatever) to work there for more reasons than I can imagine. You can’t always judge a book through preconceived lenses. In MN we have social programs in place to assist with each of those situations. They are done in steps from dependence to independence. The programs are no more perfect than the people who developed or implement them. And they certainly are not successful if the people they are designed for are unwilling to follow them as required. Sometimes they fail their clients through error, inadequate planning or unforeseen consequences. More often they fail because people want to do it their own way. I get it. Who wouldn’t want control over their lives? It take a true humility and sense of surrender to allow another person to help you. Even more a faceless government entity. And the more down you are the more you want to hang onto that sense of control. It’s a miserable spot to find yourself in a rehab or halfway house or at the mercy at some stupid program’s rules over your life. But those who can discipline themselves to do so may have found themselves at the spot where they can escape their more serious troubles. I think they are the rare and lucky ones. So, no money for you! 😛 But I will tell you where you can get help. And I doubt I’ll ever ask. My children are grown and have their own lives. I have no grandchildren. My cats can go mousing or rabbiting. Own my own home and have a store of food. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/69 "2013-08-12T16:59:23Z")
I don’t think I ever would. I think that panhandling is more of a state of mind and a scheme to get free money than a viable way of supporting yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/70 "2013-08-12T18:32:56Z")
> [@Dunkelheit](#): > > I don’t know what it’s like where you are, but around here, there are a lot more able men and women than there are jobs for them. Especially since at the lower end of the pay scale, one person may need to take up two or three jobs to get a living wage. And one thing I noticed in my three-year job search (now thankfully over) is that the worse the job market got, the less pay was being offered for the work required. Positions with a long list of essential and desired skills and certifications were paying not much more than minimum wage. So even if you did manage to get hired, you might not be able to make ends meet. Then I think many of these people should move or is that yet another obstacle that is just too great for many to overcome? I’m just a couple of miles outside of Wichita Falls, TX which isn’t exactly a bustling metropolis, and I have lived here all of my life. Our population has been stagnant at 100,000 for the last half century. Ever watch Brian Williams of Rock Center where he featured Williston, ND? They had strippers that were leaving Las Vegas for Williston, ND because the money was even better there. They are begging fast food workers to come to work for $15.00 an hour, and still have trouble keeping people on, because it’s difficult to compete with the oil related jobs who often have unskilled labor making 6 digit incomes in their second year and beyond. Similar things are happening in various parts of TX as well. > [@](#): > > Especially since at the lower end of the pay scale, one person may need to take up two or three jobs to get a living wage. Often it’s not how much you make, but how you manage what little you got. I’ve seen people like that, and just didn’t agree at all how they let themselves get in that predicament. I tend to empathize more for women though, whose hubbies often turned out to be worthless, and basically left them and kids pretty much on their own to fend for themselves. > [@](#): > > Pride, independence and ability a person may have in abundance, but none of these pays the bills and feeds the kids all by itself. It goes a long ways, but one can’t throw common sense out the window either. But the bottom line is you can’t keep a good man or woman down for very long that is able. They will find a way. I’m glad you have employment now, and sincerely hope things continue to improve for you. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/71 "2013-08-12T19:27:10Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I think that panhandling is more of a state of mind and a scheme to get free money than a viable way of supporting yourself. I wouldn’t call it free money. It’s earned money, just not legally earned. Successfully panhandlers put serious work into what they do in terms of creating a plausible story, scouting locations and determining the best times for work, and what’s the hardest repeatedly making contact with people (most of whom will reject them) over and over until they collect decent money. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/72 "2013-08-12T20:26:50Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I wouldn’t call it free money. It’s earned money, just not legally earned. Successfully panhandlers put serious work into what they do in terms of creating a plausible story, scouting locations and determining the best times for work, and what’s the hardest repeatedly making contact with people (most of whom will reject them) over and over until they collect decent money. Yeah those successful panhandlers are a despicable lot. I’d put them and phone/internet scammers in the same category. I’ve always said if they would put as much effort in legitimate pursuits they’d make a good living. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/73 "2013-08-13T16:40:54Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Someone in another thread talked about panhandling often. This was a week or so ago, I think. > > [Found](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16551765&postcount=9) it. Well, at least she’s got it all figured out now. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/74 "2013-08-13T18:31:56Z")
In Mexico I’ve seen two kinds of panhandlers. Near the city markets where the locals shop there are often seriously ill or disfigured people who probably are in need of help due to lack of government assistance. Near the hotel zones there are groups of people in rags with children and dogs. Some of them have become adept at displaying a lugubrious expression of misery that may tug at the heartstring of the gullible. They use their children and dogs as foils to attract tourists. One night I watched as they got together for their ride home for the evening and someone in a spanking new Ford pickup fetched them up. It’s a lifestyle. So I asked a taxi driver about them. (Paraphrase) He laughed, "Those aren’t our beggars. They’re gypsies. They travel to all the tourist towns around Mexico. When they get in trouble in one place they move on. They make a good living. Me? I drive a taxi to support my wife and two girls. I’m a hard worker and would like to come to the states but I can’t ever make enough money to get in." Maybe that’s what we’re discussing here. Would you be willing to make a lifestyle of begging? That’s a tricky question. Sometimes those choices for what look like easy money are habit-forming and people just get sucked in deeper and deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/75 "2013-08-13T19:35:13Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t think I could. I think I would steal first. Maybe get myself put in jail. As I live in Britain, though, where we have a welfare state, so it pretty difficult to get into a situation that bad. > > It seems to me that although panhandling can probably bring in plenty enough to pay for food, it is unlikely to ever bring in enough for regular rent, let alone serious medical expenses (beyond some cheap medical drugs, maybe). hard to say what they make but there are often stories like [this](http://www.komonews.com/news/local/15157611.html)in the news. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/76 "2013-08-14T04:05:55Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I’ve seen locals panhandling feet away from signs saying “Now hiring - $10/hr”. My heart is not softened. > > **Emily G** - Have you ever heard Joni Mitchell’s song _[For Free](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQJMq0IZbxI)_? It’s about a busking clarinetist. > > StG I’m sure most of those signs are more of a scam than most panhandlers. If not, working and being paid $10/hr for a partial week a month from now, if fortunate,is not going to provide the money that panhandlers need today. Of course you can always say “McDonald’s is hiring” when they reject 93% of applicants and it costs money upfront and significant time before earning a low 3-figure pay “check,” most likely on a high-fee debit card. Yeah, if people can work they should, but a guy starving today probably isn’t panhandling to pay next quarter’s water bill. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/77 "2013-08-16T19:20:25Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I’m sure most of those signs are more of a scam than most panhandlers. If not, working and being paid $10/hr for a partial week a month from now, if fortunate,is not going to provide the money that panhandlers need today. Of course you can always say “McDonald’s is hiring” when they reject 93% of applicants and it costs money upfront and significant time before earning a low 3-figure pay “check,” most likely on a high-fee debit card. Yeah, if people can work they should, but a guy starving today probably isn’t panhandling to pay next quarter’s water bill. Well, many of the people who haunt the street corners have their corners month after month. They’ve set up lawn chairs and umbrellas for shade and have coolers and dress reasonably well. I’d rather send my money to a Haitian orphanage. StG ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919/78 "2013-08-17T03:49:57Z")
A guy has taken to playing the saxophone next door to me for tips all day. This happened today and yesterday and probably tomorrow. I wish he would just hold a sign saying “God bless” or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-desperate-would-you-need-to-be-before-youd-panhandle/665919.md?page=3)