# How did an American pass himself off as a Duke in Britain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476 "2009-02-04T21:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Wikipedia_Cites)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/1 "2009-02-04T21:41:14Z")
The BBC reported that a “Duke” in Britain was actually an American. Presumbly the accent and everything was fake. Question: How did the Britishers fall for this? There must have been so many obstacles, just thinking of European style football. The imposter must have either got up to speed really quickly on football, or the people around him must have wondered by a native born English noble had no idea what anything was besides “Manchester U”. Anyone have further information on this? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/2 "2009-02-04T21:47:10Z")
Do you have a link to the story? It’s entirely possible to be both an American _and_ a peer at the same time. You just need to inheirit a title from a British relative. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/3 "2009-02-04T22:01:15Z")
I would not assume that a duke was familiar with the details of association football. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/4 "2009-02-04T22:23:51Z")
Cite? From a short search it seems there are only 10 dukes in the UK [(Wiki)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dukes_in_the_Peerage_of_the_United_Kingdom) [(another site)](http://www.ukdukes.co.uk/the_dukes/) so an eleventh one would probably raise some eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/5 "2009-02-04T22:27:28Z")
Note to self: When passing as a peer, don’t choose Duke. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/6 "2009-02-04T22:45:41Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > Cite? From a short search it seems there are only 10 dukes in the UK [(Wiki)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dukes_in_the_Peerage_of_the_United_Kingdom) [(another site)](http://www.ukdukes.co.uk/the_dukes/) so an eleventh one would probably raise some eyebrows. That’s in the Peerage of the UK, there’s also a Peerage of Great Britain, Peerage of Ireland, Peerage of England, and Peerage of Scotland. [Here’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dukedoms_in_the_peerages_of_the_British_Isles) a fuller list. Not that there are fewer dukes than dukedoms as some hold multiple dukedoms. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/7 "2009-02-04T23:10:19Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > The imposter must have either got up to speed really quickly on football, or the people around him must have wondered by a native born English noble had no idea what anything was besides “Manchester U”. As it happens, the [current Duke of Manchester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_13th_Duke_of_Manchester) lives in America and is married to an American woman. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/8 "2009-02-04T23:10:45Z")
Cite? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/9 "2009-02-04T23:17:48Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > As it happens, the [current Duke of Manchester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_13th_Duke_of_Manchester) lives in America and is married to an American woman. So is the current [Baron of Haden-Guest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Guest). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/10 "2009-02-04T23:38:55Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > As it happens, the [current Duke of Manchester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_13th_Duke_of_Manchester) lives in America and is married to an American woman. Sorry for the hijack, but his son has the most incredibly long and pretentious name I’ve ever heard: [Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu, Viscount Mandeville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_Viscount_Mandeville) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/11 "2009-02-04T23:45:01Z")
OT: I think the SDMB is the only place I ever see the term Britisher used. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/12 "2009-02-04T23:49:42Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > The BBC reported that a “Duke” in Britain was actually an American. Presumbly the accent and everything was fake. > > Question: How did the Britishers fall for this? There must have been so many obstacles, just thinking of European style football. The imposter must have either got up to speed really quickly on football, or the people around him must have wondered by a native born English noble had no idea what anything was besides “Manchester U”. > > Anyone have further information on this? I searched [BBC.co.uk](http://BBC.co.uk) (using key phrases like “false american duke” and the like) and found nothing promising. I’m reminded of a story by G.K. Chesterton (a Father Brown story) “The Purple Wig” in which an American buys an estate, and the associated peerage, and (years later) pretends to be of the original family ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/13 "2009-02-05T00:03:27Z")
Was it difficult? Are you kidding? I had absolutely no trouble whatsoever! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/14 "2009-02-05T00:06:57Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sorry for the hijack, but his son has the most incredibly long and pretentious name I’ve ever heard: [Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu, Viscount Mandeville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_Viscount_Mandeville) I agree, it sounds like the combination of a memory game and a drunken bet. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/15 "2009-02-05T00:14:22Z")
When is this supposed to have happened? Could you possibly be thinking of the Tichborne claimant? (Not American, but he did live in south America for a time, then Australia) > **[Tichborne case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tichborne_Case)** > > The Tichborne case was a legal cause célèbre that captivated Victorian England in the 1860s and 1870s. It concerned the claims by a man sometimes referred to as Thomas Castro or as Arthur Orton, but usually termed "the Claimant", to be the missing heir to the Tichborne baronetcy. He failed to convince the courts, was convicted of perjury and served a long prison sentence. > Roger Tichborne, heir to the family's title and fortunes, was presumed to have died in a shipwreck in 1854 at age 25. His... ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/16 "2009-02-05T00:17:55Z")
Maybe he was from Earl (Alabama) ? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/17 "2009-02-05T00:22:06Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > The BBC reported that a “Duke” in Britain was actually an American. Presumbly the accent and everything was fake. > > Question: How did the Britishers fall for this? There must have been so many obstacles, just thinking of European style football. The imposter must have either got up to speed really quickly on football, or the people around him must have wondered by a native born English noble had no idea what anything was besides “Manchester U”. > > Anyone have further information on this? 1. As others have said, you can have American title-holders. Indeed the wonderful American Jamie Lee Curtis was entitled to sit in the House of Lords for the Queen’s speech. > **[BBC ON THIS DAY | 24 | 1998: Queen's speech spells end for peers](http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/24/newsid_4007000/4007601.stm)** > > Under new proposals hereditary peers will lose their right to sit and vote in the UK Parliament's upper chamber. 1. What is this ‘Britishers’ of which you speak? 😕 2. Posh people would discuss polo (possibly rowing or cricket). Football is not a popular game for the upper classes. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/18 "2009-02-05T00:24:05Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I searched [BBC.co.uk](http://BBC.co.uk) (using key phrases like “false american duke” and the like) and found nothing promising. I’m reminded of a story by G.K. Chesterton (a Father Brown story) “The Purple Wig” in which an American buys an estate, and the associated peerage, and (years later) pretends to be of the original family There’s also [His Lordship the Viscount St. Austell-in-the-Moor Biggleswade-Brixham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonker_Harris) who pretty much did the same thing, but occasionally gets to go over to the other side of the pond and help out the Royal family. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/19 "2009-02-05T00:35:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > So is the current [Baron of Haden-Guest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Guest). Ahem. He’s the Baron Haden-Guest, not the Baron _of_ Haden-Guest. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > OT: I think the SDMB is the only place I ever see the term Britisher used. Never watched Monty Python? Mr. Hilter: “Against the wall, you Britisher pigs! You’re going to die!” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/20 "2009-02-05T00:57:23Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > OT: I think the SDMB is the only place I ever see the term Britisher used. I’ve heard it used by speakers of Indian English. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476.md?page=2)