# How did an American pass himself off as a Duke in Britain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476 "2009-02-04T21:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/41 "2009-02-06T05:03:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sorry for the hijack, but his son has the most incredibly long and pretentious name I’ve ever heard: [Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu, Viscount Mandeville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_Viscount_Mandeville) Is his favorite composer Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/42 "2009-02-06T05:36:47Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > Ah, maybe it was more common to use _Englander_, but I’m sure _Britisher_ was used also - possibly just for a change! Or maybe to keep the Scottish, Irish & Welsh readers happy! “Engländer” is a noun. “Britischer” is (a specific form of) an adjective. It’s “Verdammter Engländer!” but “Britischer Schweinehund!” ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/43 "2009-02-06T05:38:02Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I’m sure I remember it was used not infrequently in 60s & 70s UK war comics whenever the Germans were attacking! Usually together with the words, ‘Die’ and ‘pigs’ I definitely recall seeing “Britisher” used in old _Commando_ and _War Picture Library_ comics that I used to read as a kid; you’d also get _Englander_, _Tommy_, and _Schweinhund_ thrown in there as well (as a couple of other posters have noticed) just to keep things interesting. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/44 "2009-02-06T08:05:02Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > “Engländer” is a noun. “Britischer” is (a specific form of) an adjective. It’s “Verdammter Engländer!” but “Britischer Schweinehund!” Oh jolly good old bean and wizard prang, what ho? “bandits at 9 o’clock” ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/45 "2009-02-06T08:38:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Yes, but according to Wikipedia, the person I mentioned isn’t a Victorian-era Brit but instead is a fifteen-year-old kid who lives in California. Did you notice how wikipedia also tells us his girlfriend? Who is apparently, and improbably, named “Demitri.” Something tells me he’s not too popular among his wikipedia-editing peers… ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/46 "2009-02-06T15:49:29Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > - Englander Schweinhund! \* Please note that it is obligatory at some point for the Germans to shout out Donner und Blitzen or Gott in Himmel when surprised by the plucky "Cockney Sparrow"British Tommy or the Brick Outhouse sergeant . (The latter never actually fires his rifle but always manages to get close up to the “Cabbage Eaters” and beat them around the head with the butt,usually six or more at a time but never less then four.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/47 "2009-02-06T16:59:35Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > How did an American pass himself off as a Duke in Britain? You misunderstood. It was actually a John Wayne lookalike, who passed himself off as THE Duke. ---
**Author:** ![Duchess\_of\_Manchester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Duchess\_of\_Manchester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duchess_of_Manchester)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/48 "2011-01-11T19:15:49Z")
Is there a issue with our childrens names \> What are your childrens names…The Duke of Manchester is married to a Woman in america. Do you have a issue with that too? The Duke was not in Britian at a Football game or whatever your talking about? Why would you post things about people and children you dont know? how odd… > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sorry for the hijack, but his son has the most incredibly long and pretentious name I’ve ever heard: [Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu, Viscount Mandeville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Montagu,_Viscount_Mandeville) ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/49 "2011-01-11T19:51:55Z")
Your grace, forgive the board’s impertinence. Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu is a wonderful name. And may I also compliment your reading comprehension and use of ellipses? ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/50 "2011-01-11T19:52:53Z")
Welcome Duchess. I am the Duke of Zombieshire. Fancy meeting you here. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/51 "2011-01-11T20:07:38Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Welcome Duchess. I am the Duke of Zombieshire. Fancy meeting you here. You shouldn’t laugh: poster #48 may very well be her grace Laura Montagu, Duchess of Manchester, since she is a real person. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/52 "2011-01-11T20:13:52Z")
I have no idea if there’s a true story behind the OP’s question, but I’ll assume there is. IF there really was an American impostor or scam artist in England posing as a British peer, COULD he pull it off successfully? Maybe. It depends how good his accent, his cover story and his social skills were, and upon the people he was trying to fool. That is, was the impostor hanging out with other rich aristocrats, was he posing as a peer among middle-class or working class folks who mightn’t know the names of all Britain’s true peers and might not notice mistakes or faux pas that would give a faker away. The same would be true of any scam. COULD a British con artist come to the USA, adopt an American accent, and fool me into believing he was a member of Congress? Maybe. I sure don’t know the names of everyone in the House of Representatives, and I wouldn’t recognize the faces of many whose names I DO recognize. If an English con artist mastered a Southern accent, put on a 3-piece suit, and introduced himself to me as “Congressman Jim Cooper of Tennessee,” I might well be fooled, at least for a little while. P.S. Tell the truth- do you even KNOW if there’s a real Congressman Jim Cooper from Tennessee? ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/53 "2011-01-11T20:22:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > You shouldn’t laugh: poster #48 may very well be her grace Laura Montagu, Duchess of Manchester, since she is a real person. I would not dream of questioning her authenticity. Also please show me the proper respect and address me as My Lord Duke of Zombieshire. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/54 "2011-01-11T20:26:18Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > I would not dream of questioning her authenticity. Also please show me the proper respect and address me as My Lord Duke of Zombieshire. Thank you. Tell me more about yourself, your grace: tell me, where is Zombieshire? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/55 "2011-01-11T20:35:23Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > You shouldn’t laugh: poster #48 may very well be her grace Laura Montagu, Duchess of Manchester, since she is a real person. “I hate when that happens!” – Lord Haden-Guest ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/56 "2011-01-11T20:38:04Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Tell me more about yourself, your grace: tell me, where is Zombieshire? Zombieshire is a small province of ZombieLand (which is where this thread used to reside) which is part of the Greater Kingdom of Atlantis. Obviously, I am not a Duke and our “Duchess” is not a real Duchess. I think it is a safe bet that royalty do not register on random message boards under their titles to pick fights with posters. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/57 "2011-01-11T20:47:33Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > I think it is a safe bet that royalty do not register on random message boards under their titles to pick fights with posters. I would not take it as a safe bet. The real Duchess of Manchester may have Googled her step-son’s name, found this thread, and joined the SDMB in order to take offense at the joke. ETA: And most dukes and duchesses are not royalty, even if the best-known ones are. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/58 "2011-01-11T20:49:53Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > But, location aside, he _is_ actually Viscount Manderville, son and heir of the Duke of Manchester. Fair enough, his full name is a little long, but what would be more pretentious in his case – continuing in the naming tradition his father’s family has followed for generations, or saying “The hell with it, we’re in California: call him Rainbow Mooncloud”? 🙂 As a Californian, I take exception to your comment. That would be Rainbow Moon_child_. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/59 "2011-01-11T20:57:03Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I would not take it as a safe bet. The real Duchess of Manchester may have Googled her step-son’s name, found this thread, and joined the SDMB in order to take offense at the joke. > > ETA: And most dukes and duchesses are not royalty, even if the best-known ones are. What joke? I just said that Alexander Michael Charles David Francis George Edward William Kimble Drogo Montagu, Viscount Mandeville was a long and pretentious name, especially for a teenage Californian. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/60 "2011-01-11T21:12:22Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I would not take it as a safe bet. The real Duchess of Manchester may have Googled her step-son’s name, found this thread, and joined the SDMB in order to take offense at the joke.. Eh, I doubt it, with such odd grammer & capitalization in that post (and what’s with the ‘\>’). I would hope the real Duchess has a (educated) assistant who would handle this sort of situation. (I also learned Dukes are addressed ‘your Grace’ from ‘Kind Hearts and Coronets’ :p) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476.md?page=4)